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Author Topic: One of them will be President?  (Read 5530 times)

jack24

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One of them will be President?
« on: April 17, 2008, 05:04:08 PM »
So I'm a Right leaning moderate.
Sure I believe in conservative economic principles and conservative social principles.  But I'm pretty liberal on the immigration and health care issues.  I also don't know where I stand on the Iraq War.
I do believe that everyone needs to "..Ask what [they] can do for [their] country"  You may be able to blame the economy problems on the government, but the economy is mostly made up of people making choices.  Go out and "be the change you want to see in the world"

Anyway...  The Right wing media loved the Debate questions last night, and the Left wing media hate the questions.  The questions didn't really make me mad, but the responses to some questions did.

1: Both Obama and Clinton pledged to bring all the troops home from Iraq by a certain date regardless of what the Generals on the ground say.  Because it's the "will of the people"   Oh bull.  If General Patraeus (sp?) and the other military leadership told Senator Clinton that waiting a year longer would create stable democratic government and society, do you think the Majority would really want Her to disregard what he said?  I want the troops to come home, but I think the President needs to make decisions based on all the information. 

2: The capital gains question kind of sucked.. but Obama botched it.  He was so busy preaching "fairness" that he didn't address the fact that Tax Revenue might go up when Tax Rates go down.  He could at least have said something like  "Capital Gains Tax revenues have more to do with the status of the economy than they have to do with the tax rates.  My number one goal with the economy is to make it better for EVERYONE.  But right now we are going to require some extra short term sacrifices to acheive that goal"

3: The American Flag, Weather Underground, Bosnia, and Rev. Wright.
Hillary: Saying "oops" really doesn't fix the problem.  Why didn't she just say, "I exagerated, but I want everyone to know that our military would never let the First Lady walk into a dangerous situation.  No sniper would ever get close enough.
Obama:  Come on man!  Silence the critics.  "I am a patriot and I will always be a patriot.  I will wear an American Flag Pin, I disagree with Reverend Wright and I believe the Weather Underground is dispicable.   I believe this country has some shortcomings, but I love it.  I will work as hard as I can to keep this country great, and I will do whatever I can to motivate the great citizens of this land to overcome the challenges we face."

   





jack24

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2008, 05:18:54 PM »


this is what we're evaluating our presidential candidates on now?  whether or not they wear a flag pin?  seriously?

Sadly, i've had the chain email sent to me 5 times about this.
I think it is stupid.  He told everyone it was a manufactured issue when he could have just said that John McCain doesn't wear an American flag because wearing a flag pin has nothing to do with real patriotism.  Take the stupid pot shots from the right wing and shove it back in thier faces with some blazing patriotic rhetoric.

just dot

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2008, 05:42:55 PM »
The capital gains question made me so crazy I was literally jumping up and down in my room. The way Obama answered it made me cringe.  I don't want a President who bases tax rates on "fairness," even when it means bringing in less revenue.  Seriously?  Isn't it better for all of us when there is more money in the coffers, so to speak?  I understand it is a far more complicated issue than can be addressed in a 30 second sound-bite.  I get that.  But, his answer really bothered me on so many levels.  I think it gave a lot away about how he thinks of the government and how he sees its role in taxation.

Then again, I'm a Libertarian who's in favor of the Fair Tax, so take what I say with that in mind.

I'm still planning on voting for "none of the above."  I guess I'll have to pick one of these yahoos by November.  Heaven help me.
To put it bluntly, I seem to have a whole superstructure with no foundation. But I`m working on the foundation.

gladiator

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2008, 09:51:12 PM »
Questions about trade- 0

Questions about process, Jeremiah Wright, and other trivial nonsense- At least a dozen

Great job, ABC.  ::)

You can't just say we should ignore fairness to increase revenue. Slavery was good for the economy too but that doesn't mean we should bring it back. So many things in this country are such a struggle because there is an incredible inertia in Washington against fixing past mistakes because those who benefit from the current situation are loathe to change it and have to adjust their money-making strategy.

nike6075

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2008, 02:10:10 PM »
If General Patraeus (sp?) and the other military leadership told Senator Clinton that waiting a year longer would create stable democratic government and society, do you think the Majority would really want Her to disregard what he said? 

yes.

He was so busy preaching "fairness" that he didn't address the fact that Tax Revenue might go up when Tax Rates go down. 

sure it might.  lots of things might happen.  i wouldn't bet the budget on a lot of those things though.
Obama:  Come on man!  Silence the critics.  "I am a patriot and I will always be a patriot.  I will wear an American Flag Pin, I disagree with Reverend Wright and I believe the Weather Underground is dispicable.   I believe this country has some shortcomings, but I love it.  I will work as hard as I can to keep this country great, and I will do whatever I can to motivate the great citizens of this land to overcome the challenges we face."

this is what we're evaluating our presidential candidates on now?  whether or not they wear a flag pin?  seriously?

Only if history is to be any guide...

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120847505709424727.html?mod=googlenews_wsj (See image 'Capital Gains History')
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

nike6075

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dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

nike6075

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2008, 02:30:36 PM »
that's a somewhat less convincing chart.

LOL at 'somewhat less convincing.'  Still a pretty direct correlation...
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

nike6075

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2008, 02:37:03 PM »
that's a somewhat less convincing chart.

LOL at 'somewhat less convincing.'  Still a pretty direct correlation...

actually, it's not a direct correlation.  maybe if you graphed it with rate of growth in capital gains revenue it would look better.

You have this knack for playing dumb that's pretty frustrating.  Try a little critical thinking - perhaps a bit of interpretation.  Capital gains revenue is going to grow as the percentage of people owning/buying/selling stock grows (which has been the case over the last several decades). However, that revenue actually decreases at times of increases capital gains tax rates, and then shoots back up as those rates are lowered.
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

nike6075

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2008, 02:38:16 PM »
i should probably concede this one actually, but i think i'll be stubborn for a bit longer.

Jesus - thank you.  The first line in the post above is in direct reference to this.

Furthermore, as the WSJ points out, Obama is either naive to this or simply chooses to ignore it and accept less tax revenue simply because he thinks a higher rate is 'more fair.'  Pretty scary stuff...
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.

nike6075

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Re: One of them will be President?
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2008, 02:44:46 PM »
http://time-blog.com/curious_capitalist/2008/01/do_capital_gains_tax_cuts_incr.html

Their rationalization is that people wait to make cap-gains-tax-inducing moves until after the rate changes.  Oh really?  Well if Obama is elected, we should expect a flurry of selloffs before his tax policies have a chance to come to fruition and low capital gains revenue during his presidency.  No *&^% - that's exactly what everyone is saying is going to happen.

Also: As the commentor wisely points out, you can't look at the effects of capital gains tax policies ceteris parabis.  There are always going to be outside affectors.
dont worry guys, i had lotsof drinks, and now i feel better. hth.