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Author Topic: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar  (Read 13505 times)

Undisputed

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2008, 09:09:42 PM »
The people who think they're going to get to go out and be a practicing lawyer after shelling out money (often times as much as "real" schools) are more likely than not going to be extremely disappointed.

For that matter, the exact same thing can be said about more than a few T4 schools.

Among this 2008 U.S. News ranking list http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/c_final_tier+4 which ones are the "more than a few T4 schools" by any chance?

Appalachian School of Law
Ave Maria School of Law
Barry University
CUNY--Queens College
California Western School of Law
Campbell University (Wiggins)
Capital University
Duquesne University
Florida Coastal School of Law
Florida International University
Golden Gate University
John Marshall Law School
Mississippi College
New England School of Law
North Carolina Central University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Kentucky University (Chase)
Nova Southeastern University (Broad)
Oklahoma City University
Regent University
Roger Williams University
South Texas College of Law
Southern Illinois University--Carbondale
Southern University
Southwestern Law School
St. Mary's University
St. Thomas University
Texas Southern University (Marshall)
Texas Wesleyan University
Thomas Jefferson School of Law
Thomas M. Cooley Law School
Touro College (Fuchsberg)
University of Dayton
University of Detroit Mercy
University of Memphis (Humphreys)
University of North Dakota
University of Tulsa
University of the District of Columbia (Clarke)
Valparaiso University
Western New England College
Whittier Law School
Widener University
William Mitchell College of Law

You also bring up the point about "shelling out money." I read this PDF a while back that I thought was interesting.

www.abcny.org/pdf/report/PanelDiscussionABCNYMeeting-42704.pdf

jacy85

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #11 on: April 07, 2008, 07:02:17 AM »
The only T4 I know off the top of my head that's really bad is Cooley - they accept tons of students a year (pretty much anyone with a pulse can get in, from what I remember), and their attrition rate is HUGE every single year.  They say they're giving people "a chance" when in reality, a huge number of the people admitted are there just to provide cash to the university.

there are others that seem to have similar reputations; I don't keep up with T4 schools, however, so I couldn't tell you which ones.  I wouldn't want to hazard a guess because there are some T4s that do actually put the work into trying to provide a quality legal education, and I don't think they should be lumped in with the others trying to get in to the market to prey on the vulnerabilities of people looking for "a chance."

Undisputed

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #12 on: April 07, 2008, 02:48:20 PM »
The only T4 I know off the top of my head that's really bad is Cooley ...there are others that seem to have similar reputations;

You said "more then a few," you gave me one (Thomas M. Cooley Law School). I was expecting you would dismiss 10 specifically named. But I guess for now we can rely on the ambiguity of that speculation for forum and blogging purposes.
I'm going to put that aside for now but I'll get back to it. :D

others trying to get in to the market to prey on the vulnerabilities of people looking for "a chance."


Now I'm not trying to paint a rationalization to embrace a right away to expand professional schools for marketing ventures but can't this be said about any academic system in the U.S. either graduate, undergraduate, community college, all the way down to where we send our kids to public or private school? Because if that the case, wouldn't your argument be so broad enough to be “bad vs. good school” rather then T3 and up vs. online and "more then a few" T4's?

So going back to my first question I asked you: Among this 2008 U.S. News ranking list http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/search/c_final_tier+4 which ones are the "more than a few T4 schools" by any chance?  ???

Appalachian School of Law
Ave Maria School of Law
Barry University
CUNY--Queens College
California Western School of Law
Campbell University (Wiggins)
Capital University
Duquesne University
Florida Coastal School of Law
Florida International University
Golden Gate University
John Marshall Law School
Mississippi College
New England School of Law
North Carolina Central University
Northern Illinois University
Northern Kentucky University (Chase)
Nova Southeastern University (Broad)
Oklahoma City University
Regent University
Roger Williams University
South Texas College of Law
Southern Illinois University--Carbondale
Southern University
Southwestern Law School
St. Mary's University
St. Thomas University
Texas Southern University (Marshall)
Texas Wesleyan University
Thomas Jefferson School of Law
Thomas M. Cooley Law School
Touro College (Fuchsberg)
University of Dayton
University of Detroit Mercy
University of Memphis (Humphreys)
University of North Dakota
University of Tulsa
University of the District of Columbia (Clarke)
Valparaiso University
Western New England College
Whittier Law School
Widener University
William Mitchell College of Law

I don't keep up with T4 schools, however, so I couldn't tell you which ones. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess because there are some T4s that do actually put the work into trying to provide a quality legal education,


Ok, since you don't follow T4 schools among "the following correspondence law schools, which include online or distance learning law schools, that are currently registered by the Committee of Bar Examiners of the State Bar of California and have met the registration requirements specified in Rule XIX," http://calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115&id=5128 which are the "bad ones"? You know, the ones that are going to leave the majority of their alumni unemployed, heart broken, etc, etc. ???
 
Abraham Lincoln University School of Law
American Heritage University School of Law
Aristotle University Institute of Law and Jurisprudence
California School of Law
Concord Law School of Kaplan University
MD Kirk School of Law Newport University School of Law
Northwestern California University School of Law
Oak Brook College of Law and Government Policy
California Southern University
University of Honolulu School of Law
West Coast School of Law
West Haven University School of Law
Taft Law School

Now I'm just assuming you follow these online schools but if you do how many of them are the "bad ones?"

9 of them?, 10 of them?, all of them? Because if it's not all of the them I don't think the "good ones" should be "lumped in with the others." And if it's all or any of them, besides what they share, what do you know of all 13 of these schools individually?

My point or speculation based on what ever you want to call it, is that it's easy to dismiss "the bottom" with "hazard guesses" and speculation on where these non-Socratics are going to end up but if there was never such thing as an online or distance learning law school, people would probably single out T4 school with a lot more confidence then just naming one using your same exact observation. ;)


thorc954

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #13 on: April 07, 2008, 02:58:14 PM »
Ill help Jacy out with this one.

All of the online schools are bad, because you cannot take the bar (outside of Cali and maybe another state? either way, cannot take the bar in any decent states). 

Second, pretty much the entire list of T4s are crap excluding maybe Regents since they have some great placement into government jobs (at least until a liberal takes over office).  As far as TTT schools, most towards the bottom are kind of poor, but many have redeeming qualities.

That said, there is no reason to praise a school for something like having attorneys admitted to the SCOTUS Bar.  This takes absolutely no effort from the school nor does it take any real effort from the attorneys.  Within 5 years, anyone that wants to be a member of the SCOTUS bar at my school will be.  What do you need, two friends on the bar?  I already have one of those and once I start at my firm, I am guaranteed to make many more.  Not a difficult or significant accomplishment. 

So, save the praise of Concord for when their attorneys actually argue in the court.  I am tired of people naming insignificant things and attributing them to a school as an accomplishment.  There is no effort involved in becoming a member of the bar.  The only thing surprising is that there are actually three members of that mail order degree that where able to pass the state bar and go for three years without committing serious malpractice and getting disbarred.

Undisputed

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #14 on: April 07, 2008, 03:20:09 PM »
pretty much the entire list of T4s are crap excluding maybe Regents since they have some great placement into government jobs

Damn, that's pretty hard man. lmao :D

thorc954

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #15 on: April 07, 2008, 03:34:22 PM »
agreed.  its hard cause they all suck and scam people out of money.  Its kinda sad because Id really like everyone that wanted to be a lawyer to have the opportunity, but these schools, with horrendous forced curves, just sucker people in then let them go immediately.  At least, in the top schools, they weed out who isnt capable of being a lawyer in advance and virtually guarantee everyone that attends a seat at graduation. 

Undisputed

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #16 on: April 07, 2008, 03:57:01 PM »
Its kinda sad because Id really like everyone that wanted to be a lawyer to have the opportunity, 

Not trying to be foul or anything but do you really mean that? I mean that's a lot of schools your objecting to(the lower TTT, T4s, online)  ???

thorc954

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #17 on: April 07, 2008, 03:59:42 PM »
yea, i really mean that, but i really mean that in an ideal world.  I think that everyone should be able to do what they want with their lives and get the jobs that they really want, etc.  However, this isnt that world and people from the schools I listed arent capable of getting the jobs they want (or at least not all of them are capable), so it sucks and the schools should be done away with. 

Undisputed

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #18 on: April 07, 2008, 04:16:11 PM »
However, this isnt that world and people from the schools I listed arent capable of getting the jobs they want (or at least not all of them are capable), so it sucks and the schools should be done away with. 

Well I don't agree with you but I'm glad you didn't pull any punches or rationalize your beliefs. And though this world is cynical as it may seem I'm going to continue doing the best I can as a student.  8)

thorc954

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Re: First Concord-Educated Attorneys Admitted to U.S. Supreme Court Bar
« Reply #19 on: April 07, 2008, 05:11:30 PM »
well, good for you then, i wish you the best of luck with your studies and future employment.