Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?

[StevePirates]

A few notes...

I think that it may not be "personality" exactly that is a problem for many law students without jobs -- it's JUDGMENT.  People write truly terrible cover letters.  They say things they shouldn't to  firm, and don't say some of the things they should.  They don't understand how their tone comes across in e-mails, and have Facebook profiles of them in their Halloween costumes dressed as slutty nurse.  It's not chance that I've gotten an offer at every single callback I've gone on.  (I've gotten the offers within at least 3-4 business days of the interview.  I know that's not true for everyone, but if you were their first choice you'd probably know by now.)  And included in that judgment is thinking you're hot *&^% out of the T4. 
 

So while you're right that the market isn't that tight and not all gloom and doom, that's true primarily if you have something that's sought after -- like if you're at a T14 or the top of your class.  But you're not at a T14, and you're not choosing between 10 midlaw/biglaw offers.  You don't offer much that's unique or in high demand, so you're debating a paralegal job at $10 an hour.  And I think you should take it. 

"Judgment" is an infinitely better way of phrasing what I was trying to get across when I said "personality".  Thank you for putting it into a less "attack-y" word.  I meant no offense to the people without jobs (directed to Ms. Raven there).  I was simply trying to say that they may lack the "soft skills" needed to land a job, and that's something that anyone can learn with a little effort.

I also agree that countering doesn't make much sense in general.  If you have a specific feel for your prospective employers, then that's great, but free market rules apply.  The supply of 1L's outstrips the supply of jobs.  If they want the job done for $10.00, they can find someone to do it for $10.00

[Bob Loblaw Esq.]

this thread is hilarious.

op - the question is not whether you are worth an extra $2-5/hr, whether you can get a different low paying gig, whether your spanish skills may put you over, etc....  The question for you is, do you want substantive legal experience this summer?   It sounds like this would be some great experience that has potential to help you out in oci next fall and generally your employment prospects from here on. 

The only reason I can think of that you should be gunning for an extra couple of bucks is if you really need it to to support yourself, family, whatever.  From your posts you have not mentioned any sort of need; it seems that for you its some sort of prestige thing, which is funny, its only an extra couple of bucks an hour, and you're willing to pass up a decent job because of it.

Some of the previous posters are correct, many of your peers would kill just to have any kind of gig that will give them some legal experience.  You might say that you could give a crap whether your peers would kill for this position, or as you previously said, you dont buy into the whole notion that a t4 student should be grateful for this type of job.  That's fine.  But seriously, if you pass this job up, i'm sure all your buddies will be lined up at the door ready to take the job (without asking for a raise). 

[Peaches]

Agree with you.  But apparently this means that you, too, have a hole in your soul.

[vaplaugh]

The only reason I can think of that you should be gunning for an extra couple of bucks is if you really need it to to support yourself, family, whatever.  From your posts you have not mentioned any sort of need; it seems that for you its some sort of prestige thing, which is funny, its only an extra couple of bucks an hour, and you're willing to pass up a decent job because of it.

Seconded.  If the need for money is the issue, then ask.  If this is an issue of pride or proving something to yourself or others, forget about it.

[anxiety]

I understand your issue with taking a low paying job. I had this concern as well in my search for a summer job. Do not listen to the debbie downers who tell you that as a T4 you cannot get a well-paying job. I am ranked similarly in my class at a T4 and I got a summer internship paying $30 an hour at a local IP firm.

I do agree with one poster, though, that the substantive experience you will gain this summer is far more important than the money. If my employer had offered me this particular job without pay, I still would have taken it because it is my dream job. The high salary is just an added perk.

[MrBrett1117]

I understand your issue with taking a low paying job. I had this concern as well in my search for a summer job. Do not listen to the debbie downers who tell you that as a T4 you cannot get a well-paying job. I am ranked similarly in my class at a T4 and I got a summer internship paying $30 an hour at a local IP firm.

I assume that you had an engineering/hard sciences degree?  If so, that would make you very different from the OP.

As others have said, take the job without asking for a raise unless you desperately need the money.  My 1L summer I worked for free.  It sucked, but the experience I got helped me land an SA position with a V40 NYC firm even though my school does not have any NYC ties. 

Whether or not you want to believe it, school reputation does matter.  You are very lucky to be getting a paid summer gig as a 1L given that you are only top 25% at a T4.  Don't jeopardize the great offer you have over an amount of money that in the long run is insignificant.  Take the job and get a huge leg up in OCI.

[afer1500]

Thank you all for the great advice. I've asked for a pay increase and the firm said that salary was not negotiable. However, they did agree to waive the 90 probationary period for whatever thats worth.

I'll probably email the firm tomorrow and pass on the offer. I think someone who has their heart in it should get the position. My wife and I are not desperate for the money but I still think I can a better salary wise. I agree being T4 makes a difference and maybe I am being pigheaded but I've never been one to settle when it comes to work. If the position was in closer I'd probably take it and suck it up, but its just too far to drive everyday for 10 per hour and not far enough away to justify getting an apartment. I think something else will come along and if it doesn't I'll just intern for free w/ the Prosecutors office 10 minutes away. For those who care I shall update when I know more.

[jacy85]

Thank you all for the great advice. I've asked for a pay increase and the firm said that salary was not negotiable. However, they did agree to waive the 90 probationary period for whatever thats worth.

I'll probably email the firm tomorrow and pass on the offer. I think someone who has their heart in it should get the position. My wife and I are not desperate for the money but I still think I can a better salary wise. I agree being T4 makes a difference and maybe I am being pigheaded but I've never been one to settle when it comes to work. If the position was in closer I'd probably take it and suck it up, but its just too far to drive everyday for 10 per hour and not far enough away to justify getting an apartment. I think something else will come along and if it doesn't I'll just intern for free w/ the Prosecutors office 10 minutes away. For those who care I shall update when I know more.

Do you  have an offer in hand from the DA's office?  If not, then you're being extremely cocky and presumptuous to simply assume that they'd want you.  Many 1 and 2Ls actually APPLY to intern (for free) at DA and PD offices, and have to interview/compete for offers.  ADAs only have so much time to supervise interns and only so much work they can let 1L do.  So don't assume you can just volunteer any old where you want.

And FWIW, if you're giving up PAID legal work as a 1L at a T4, you're insane.  Paid legal work for any 1L is hard to find, and only gets harder the lower down in the tiers you go.  You may refuse to see that, but it's true.  Granted, it says quite a bit about you that you got a paying offer anyway, and that's something to take pride in.  You're throwing away a great opportunity though, and getting greedy, IMO.  I'd suggest you get over yourself.

[afer1500]

Thank you all for the great advice. I've asked for a pay increase and the firm said that salary was not negotiable. However, they did agree to waive the 90 probationary period for whatever thats worth.

I'll probably email the firm tomorrow and pass on the offer. I think someone who has their heart in it should get the position. My wife and I are not desperate for the money but I still think I can a better salary wise. I agree being T4 makes a difference and maybe I am being pigheaded but I've never been one to settle when it comes to work. If the position was in closer I'd probably take it and suck it up, but its just too far to drive everyday for 10 per hour and not far enough away to justify getting an apartment. I think something else will come along and if it doesn't I'll just intern for free w/ the Prosecutors office 10 minutes away. For those who care I shall update when I know more.

Do you  have an offer in hand from the DA's office?  If not, then you're being extremely cocky and presumptuous to simply assume that they'd want you.  Many 1 and 2Ls actually APPLY to intern (for free) at DA and PD offices, and have to interview/compete for offers.  ADAs only have so much time to supervise interns and only so much work they can let 1L do.  So don't assume you can just volunteer any old where you want.

And FWIW, if you're giving up PAID legal work as a 1L at a T4, you're insane.  Paid legal work for any 1L is hard to find, and only gets harder the lower down in the tiers you go.  You may refuse to see that, but it's true.  Granted, it says quite a bit about you that you got a paying offer anyway, and that's something to take pride in.  You're throwing away a great opportunity though, and getting greedy, IMO.  I'd suggest you get over yourself.

I have an offer to intern at the prosecutors office in the county were I live and in Miami-Dade as well, I've had that lined up for a month or so. So I'm not being cocky. It's just my circumstances. Basically it boils down to whether I want to drive nearly 100 miles roundtrip daily. I don't. I think I can garner a similar experience whether I'm at a firm or whether I'm at the Prosecutor's office. The 10 per hour isn't worth the drive in my opinion. I'll see if something paid comes along, like I said I still have firms and PI institutions that I haven't been rejected at yet. 

[ronaldo699]

i transfered to a school w/ work study - 5k grant for the summer....   i really did not look into this kinda thing when choosing schools, but shoulda and would advise the prelaw folks to do so as well..