Job offer but pay is low...should I counter?

[afer1500]

I don't doubt you that's why I asked I'm interested in your perspective. But truthfully I just don't get it, I've been on 10 interviews and have sent out 50-60 applications. All the larger firms have been rejections w/out even a request for an interview which I expected. But I have not had trouble getting interviews with middle of the pack firms, true I have not had an offer prior to this one, but I have not received a rejection letters from any of the firms I've interviewed w/. So those may still pan out. I think the market is slow but there is work out there, it goes beyond even networking. My group of friends has roughly 6 ppl in it. One person has work w/ a small firm similar to my situation and a backup plan to clerk for a judge if she decides last minute to 86 the firm idea. I have another friend who got a position in Columbus w/ Tucker, Ellis, & West.(this was all through prior connections) My other friends are working on finding work but they have not had trouble getting interviews. I think the market you are in matters and it seems like some places have more work.

As for the threads on this site...
LSD is a small % of ppl in law school. I really take the posts about work trouble w/ a grain of salt b/c many people in law school are straight out of undergrad and I hate to say it but they have terrible personalities. IMO the biggest thing is getting an interview. Once you've got the interview the person w/ the lowest rank can get the position because a huge part of it is personality.

LSD is a small % of ppl in law school...

[afer1500]

I'm in the top half of my law school at a T1 (30-40 range) and made 10/hr last year, during my 2L summer.  I worked for a solo back in my hometown and it was the only offer I had to do any legal work.  If I were you, I'd take the job and not even ask for more money.  You don't want to sound like you have a sense of entitlement. 

I might still take the position but I don't really think a counter makes you come across as being entitled. But you make a good point. I'm going to ask some people I know who own firms in Miami and see how the feel about a 1L making a counter offer.

[StevePirates]

I would like to make two points on different subjects:

#1 Take the job at $10.00 most 1L's are doing unpaid internships this summer.  Getting paid anything rocks, plus taking over for a paralegal instead of just doing legal research will teach you how to actually DO stuff, which is invaluable if you want to practice in the field.

#2 I don't understand why the people who can't find jobs can't find jobs.  I'm at a T4, and have a paying job lined up.  My school is well respected locally, but pretty much unheard of on the wider market.  So, I'm staying in town.  I wonder if the jobless posters' interviewing abilities aren't up to par, and that includes cover letter writing, and resume writing.  Having great numbers won't always overcome horrible presentation. 
I also wonder what markets and types of jobs they are looking at.  There are plenty of jobs out there, just not plenty of BIGLAW jobs.

[afer1500]

I would like to make two points on different subjects:

#1 Take the job at $10.00 most 1L's are doing unpaid internships this summer.  Getting paid anything rocks, plus taking over for a paralegal instead of just doing legal research will teach you how to actually DO stuff, which is invaluable if you want to practice in the field.

#2 I don't understand why the people who can't find jobs can't find jobs.  I'm at a T4, and have a paying job lined up.  My school is well respected locally, but pretty much unheard of on the wider market.  So, I'm staying in town.  I wonder if the jobless posters' interviewing abilities aren't up to par, and that includes cover letter writing, and resume writing.  Having great numbers won't always overcome horrible presentation. 
I also wonder what markets and types of jobs they are looking at.  There are plenty of jobs out there, just not plenty of BIGLAW jobs.

I think #2 is right on par. There are so many law students out there w/ great numbers who have the personality of a house plant or who have never been on an interview. This makes a difference. I've always found work throughout my life and the law field will be no exception...

#1 the more I think about the more I think you are right. I still want to make a counter just because I know that a few of the positions I have lined up pay atleast 12-15 per hour and I think one of those will pan out.

[jacy85]

Not sure how the study was done but I don't have any reason to doubt the numbers.

If you fail to see why you shouldn't take every study and statistic at face value and why you should "doubt the numbers," then I question whether you even deserve the $10/hour.

[GA-fan]

insulting the people who can't find jobs as having no personality or interview skills is not a wise idea. I know a LOT of these people, and I can say that for many of them, this is just untrue. It's a tight market right now, and while I don't think that's an excuse to sit on your butt, it does mean that a lot of desirable people can't find a paying job. Karma is a bitchh on this kind of stuff, so I suggest you stay humble at this early stage in your legal career and be grateful for someone giving you a break.
And no, I'm not bitter--I have a job, I just feel very badly for my friends who (through no fault of their own) don't.

[sir_scott]

I still want to make a counter just because I know that a few of the positions I have lined up pay atleast 12-15 per hour and I think one of those will pan out.


After hearing all the wisdom of your peers, I still think that is the right move.  I think it can be done with tact.  And, I think it can be done without conditioning acceptance of employment on the add'l $5/hr.  That is, "I accept, but how do you feel about $15/hr."  They may counter w/ $12/hr, in which case you are better off. 

From the firm's perspective: 
Paying you $15 is still a deal over the prior paralegal, especially if they are investing in your future, and acquiring someone w/your Spanish skills.

[GoGoPogo]

I still want to make a counter just because I know that a few of the positions I have lined up pay atleast 12-15 per hour and I think one of those will pan out.


After hearing all the wisdom of your peers, I still think that is the right move.  I think it can be done with tact.  And, I think it can be done without conditioning acceptance of employment on the add'l $5/hr.  That is, "I accept, but how do you feel about $15/hr."  They may counter w/ $12/hr, in which case you are better off. 

From the firm's perspective: 
Paying you $15 is still a deal over the prior paralegal, especially if they are investing in your future, and acquiring someone w/your Spanish skills.

You think $15 is a deal for the firm to get a T4 grad when there are countless other T2,3,4 people without jobs? Even in this thread, people are complaining that they are either finding no work or taking unpaid things.

Honestly, I think if OP asks for a 50% raise, they will shoot him down.

That would be like me calling the firm I'm going to be working for this summer and telling them that $2,600/week isn't enough, I need $3,900 or else! Preposterous.

[afer1500]

insulting the people who can't find jobs as having no personality or interview skills is not a wise idea. I know a LOT of these people, and I can say that for many of them, this is just untrue. It's a tight market right now, and while I don't think that's an excuse to sit on your butt, it does mean that a lot of desirable people can't find a paying job. Karma is a bitchh on this kind of stuff, so I suggest you stay humble at this early stage in your legal career and be grateful for someone giving you a break.
And no, I'm not bitter--I have a job, I just feel very badly for my friends who (through no fault of their own) don't.

Sorry if it came across that way not my intent at all. My point is that the market is not as tight as some make it out to be and there are mamy people in law school who really don't present themselves as personable or motivated to find work. Also the lack of interview experience hurts people as well. Thats just my 2 cents. Not a shot at people who have not found work.

[GoGoPogo]

insulting the people who can't find jobs as having no personality or interview skills is not a wise idea. I know a LOT of these people, and I can say that for many of them, this is just untrue. It's a tight market right now, and while I don't think that's an excuse to sit on your butt, it does mean that a lot of desirable people can't find a paying job. Karma is a bitchh on this kind of stuff, so I suggest you stay humble at this early stage in your legal career and be grateful for someone giving you a break.
And no, I'm not bitter--I have a job, I just feel very badly for my friends who (through no fault of their own) don't.

Maybe their fault was slacking off in UG or not bothering to study hard for the LSAT and thus getting into a crap school where you can't get a job w/ top 10% and law review or whatever?

I mean, maybe their instant situation isn't their fault, but they got themselves into the mess either by slacking off too much in UG, on the LSAT, in law school, or not bothering to "network."