Law School Discussion

T3 hope

T3 hope
« on: February 25, 2008, 12:19:53 AM »
Im looking at 20%-25% @ T3 in nyc, im debating whether or not it pays to transfer out of the city to Rutgers-newark or Seton Hall,, its a decent jump in rank but my current career counselor seemed to scoff at the idea saying those schools draw the NJ firms, not NYC biglaw.-- and that I should stick where I am.  thoughts or things i should be considering--thank you in advance

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2008, 01:16:42 AM »
I'm not familiar with NYC but s/he may be correct insofar as your NYC T3 has connections in NYC that the NJ schools (even though they are higher-ranking) do not. 

My best resource on these questions has been  --> advanced search, find lawyers by law school attended.

I have gathered that virtually anything is possible (my T3 has lawyers everywhere), but there are certainly schools that will make things easier for you in certain parts of the country.
I'll never trust a Klingon.  Klingon bastards killed my son.  -- Captain James T. Kirk, USS Enterprise NCC-1701

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2008, 05:28:15 PM »
you also need to take into account the fact that your career counselors are paid money to make your school look better. They are not supposed to encourage you to transfer because it makes your school look worse. My guess is those schools get at least some NY biglaw firms, but there is also a few decent sized firms in jersey anyway, and jersey city, which is only a ferry ride from NYC anyway

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2008, 05:36:24 PM »
you likely goto ny law..  id say ny law places just as well in nyc compared to the nj schools..

if you wana transfer for purposes of nyc law, look into climbing the nyc law school chain (brooklyn, fordham etc) and rock out ur grades this semester

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2008, 09:12:54 PM »
I don't know what it's like at NYLaw or Seton, but Rutgers is sending a big chunk of its top 20% to NY biglaw this summer. It'll also save you about $25,000 a year.

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #5 on: February 28, 2008, 04:24:20 AM »
yea, notwithstanding the tuiton bill,  I feel like schools like SHU and RUT in Newark that are marketing themselves 'as only 18 miles form nyc'  have their career centers working overtime to make that play well in OCI and recruitment.  Def. a solid bump  70 and 77 respectively up from T3.    If firms tend to look away from T3 @ (hofstra, nylaw, pace etc) 15%, but keep extending interviews to some degree to top 20-25%, @ SHU or RUT  then  someone @ those T3 should with 20-25% grades should make the strong play to move into mid T2... conclusion in case above is sloppy.  anyone looking for BigLaw type @ T3 from 15-25% @ end of 1L should transfer up in schools, also you dont sacrifice law review since you wouldnt have graded on anyway... thoughts reactions? its 4am im sure im missing something, not the best time to make life decisions, or is it?

Re: T3 hope
« Reply #6 on: February 28, 2008, 08:38:55 AM »
The following insights apply generally, i.e., there are of course exceptions. I base them on my own experience (Tier 4, transfer to a Top 30, then to a V30) and conversations with partners (at both mid-size and biglaw firms) who graduated from T3 and 4 schools.  My four cents:

1) Don't put too much stock in career services offices' claims such as "we're located 18 miles from a major business center" or "we're located IN a major business center" (e.g., NY, Chi).  Yes, it's better to attend a lower tier school located in or near a major market (or your desired market) and, yes, Martindale and firm websites will confirm that alumni from such schools are associates and partners at biglaw offices in that market. 

But bear in mind that those associates and partners are the extreme exception, not the rule - and if they came from a T3, they were likley no worse than top 5% of their class.  Big firms, for the sake of appearances, might "recruit" at a given T3, but will ultimately only extend offers to the top students (and career services propaganda to the contrary is just that, propaganda, and if someone as low as top 25% gets a biglaw job, it's either because of highly valuable pre-law experience/education or a personal connection).  Of course, an NYC T3 grad will get an NYC biglaw job before the Chi T3 grad, just as the Chi T3 grad stands a better chance in Chi. 

2) No matter what, having a degree from a higher ranked school would serve you well as you hunt for your second or third job out of school, and certainly as you hunt for one as a 3L or recent grad (assuming you don't land a  2L summer associate position).  But note that most firms during 2L recruiting will base their decisions (to give a screening, let alone callback, interview) on your 1L grades and class rank from your former school.  Yes, because your new, better ranked school would ultimately appear on your bio on the firm's website, they will view you more favorably than your former classmates at the lower ranked school.  But only slightly, because your 1L grades are all they have to go on.  This is all to say that, if a given firm only  interviews those in the top 10% at your former school, if you're more than 1 or 2% outside of that cut-off, you likely won't get the interview, despite being at the better ranked school. (Note: if you do well during 2L at your new school, especially in some "hard" classes, that can change the situation.)

3) If you want to save money, Rutgers is a good choice and, as njlaw notes, its top 20% or so tend to land biglaw jobs.  But again, remember point #2 above.  Personally, though it likley places fewer grads in NY biglaw than Rutgers, I would be inclined (if saving money were the goal) to transfer to Buffalo.  It's nearly a "mid T2," cheap, it's very cheap to live there, and in many ways a more desirable place to live, at least right around UB (plus there are some decent local ski areas). 

4) If cost is not the driving factor, then, as noted by ronaldo699, shoot for Fordham, or at least Dozo or BLS.  For that matter, don't rule out applying to other T1 schools (in the Fordham range). 

Good luck.