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Author Topic: irrational paranoia at top schools?  (Read 4353 times)

cisforcookie

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #40 on: February 09, 2008, 05:55:30 PM »
See, I get that people diss undergrad grades. as a technical major, which puts me in the vast minority (especially for non-ip people), I worked hard for Bs in my major and didn't have to try to get As in softer courses. so I get that the curves are totally screwed up. what I don't get is why law schools have to grade on a curve that arbitrarily concludes that 20-75 percent of the class are inferior. Having more than a little knowledge of statistics under my belt, I would fully expect that the highly competitive entrance process at these schools would result in tightly packed groups of students in the middle, with a few outliers. Very few people, even are yale, are going to set themselves apart with their brilliance. At the same time, I'm sure that most people in law school aren't incompetent fools.

The whole "if you can't cut it" attitude presumes on its face that anyone who wasn't at the top of their class couldn't cut it. And yet, I have never heard a single person tell me that they thought law school grades were remotely acceptable as indicators of a person's talent or work ethic. Instead, we hear a thousand voices screaming about how utterly arbitrary and idiotic the whole process is. It's simply absurd.

nealric

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #41 on: February 09, 2008, 06:36:27 PM »
Quote
The average GULC income of a grad - according to their own numbers is roughly $89k.  If 80% of the student body was going to BIGLAW, then that number would be substantially higher.

Also, what your CDO reports is always going to be fluff dude.

Lastly, I hate to break it to you, but firms with more than 100 lawyers is not BIGLAW lol.  That's a midsize firm at best, likely not paying market.

1. Where on earth are you getting 89k for average income? Also, only 71% actually decide on private practice. - The 79% represents people with A biglaw SA offer.

2. As to whether more than 100 lawyers = biglaw. Isnt that really just a matter of how one cares to define the term? IMO a small firm would be sub 50 lawyers, mid woudl be 50-100. Big woudl be 100+. Maybe some of the 100+ firms don't pay market, but I have yet to see a firm with a 100+ that does not pay into the six figures.
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jarhead

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #42 on: February 09, 2008, 09:39:55 PM »
i got to a top 25 school and everyone at my school who was in the top 50% who wanted a big firm job got one....i vote paranoia
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1LMan

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2008, 01:38:31 AM »
Biglaw is the AmLaw 200.  That is a BIG firm by definition.

nealric

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2008, 09:29:08 PM »
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Biglaw is the AmLaw 200.  That is a BIG firm by definition.
 

I agree any firm in the AmLaw 200 is a BIG firm, but there are certainly firms that I would consider Biglaw not on that list.

Consider a firm like Sherman & Howard in Denver (not in Amlaw200) with about 120 attourneys. Yeah, they only pay $120k, but thats in Denver. I would take 120k in Denver over 160k in NY any day. They handle the same corporate type work as biglaw, and have all the other trappings (Summer Associate program, hiring before bar passage, etc.). Perhaps they are not Biglaw by your standards, but they are functionally equivalant to Biglaw for a new graduate.

Plus, that 120k is for 1750 billables. Probalby pay more per hour than the v100 once you do the math  8)
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wustl3l

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2008, 10:00:18 PM »
There are more than a handful of people in my class without jobs. However, I find that they are largely unemployed because they are terrible interviewers, were too narrowly focused in their job search (e.g., only wanted to go to a handful of very specific cities and/or practice areas), didn't apply themselves in the job search (e.g., didn't mass mail), or a combination thereof.

I also know more than a handful of people with good jobs (i.e., market paying firms) who had worse grades then the aforementioned folks but took their destiny into their own hands.

So yes, top 1/3rd at a place like WUSTL will get you a major market out of OCI if you're not a moron, but all is not lost if you are not top 1/3rd as long as you don't sit back and just hope someone comes knocking on your door.

thorc954

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2008, 10:35:53 PM »
160K in NY over 120K in denver?  Now, I would kinda consider that big law, but Id take 120K in NY over 160K in Denver :) cant be the girls, the food, or the city.  To each his own though.

1LMan

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2008, 10:41:52 PM »
Not to mention the fact that you aren't going to have the same caliber of clients in denver that you have in NYC, Washington, or LA.  These are the legal epicenters of the world.

Also, its not up for argument, biglaw is biglaw lol.  It is the AMLAW 200.  Sure, a firm in denver may pay 120k, but its a midsized firm at best, not biglaw.

thorc954

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2008, 10:44:33 PM »
big law firms in central america and south america?  thought?  do I need to learn spanish or is it doable?  I have an unimpressive resume from the best school in the country (by my rankings, not usnews, and i rank based on who accepts me, which is also why I have a SA at the top law firm in the country).

Its getting too damn cold out. 

nealric

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Re: irrational paranoia at top schools?
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2008, 11:13:06 PM »
Quote
Not to mention the fact that you aren't going to have the same caliber of clients in denver that you have in NYC, Washington, or LA. 

The firm I mentioned above has plenty of fortune 500 companies as clients. Yeah, you won't be working on multi billion M & A projects, but if you are a lowly associate, what does it really matter to you?

Really, the only downside is you don't get the 5% chance to be a million dollar a year partner.

Quote
Also, its not up for argument, biglaw is biglaw lol.  It is the AMLAW 200.  Sure, a firm in denver may pay 120k, but its a midsized firm at best, not biglaw.

Like I said, its all how you care to define it- but the AmLaw 200 is really a poor device from the standpoint of a prospective associate. Kutak Rock, a member of the AmLaw 200, is located in Omaha Nebraska and pays 85k. It has 175 attourneys. So by your definition, a firm with 175 attourneys that pays 85k is biglaw, and a firm with 150 that pays 120k is not.  ::)
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