Cravath

[sheezy]

I attend a second-tier law school. I interviewed with Cravath and received a callback. Knowing that they primarily focus on t14-ish law schools, how should I perceive this, and do you think I'll be evaluated the same way as a t14 law school candidate would be evaluated? (i.e. do I even have a chance?)

Odd question, I'm just looking for insight since I really don't have anyone to ask since I know no one who even interviewed with them, really.

[oscarsonthepond]

There aren't nearly enough T14 students with good enough grades to fill all of the top firms, thus they look to lower-tier candidates with high grades.  I'm assuming if you got a callback that you are top 5% (maybe 10%) of your class.  Of course they are very serious about you or they wouldn't waste the very large amount of money it costs them to have you do a callback.  I think in general once you have a call back firms are looking more for "fit" than at your credentials - but that's certainly not the case for every firm.  Just convince them that you *really* want to spend 20 hours a day at the office (and then be prepared to actually do it!) and you'll be golden!  Good luck!

[Coolio]

There aren't nearly enough T14 students with good enough grades to fill all of the top firms, thus they look to lower-tier candidates with high grades.  I'm assuming if you got a callback that you are top 5% (maybe 10%) of your class.  Of course they are very serious about you or they wouldn't waste the very large amount of money it costs them to have you do a callback.  I think in general once you have a call back firms are looking more for "fit" than at your credentials - but that's certainly not the case for every firm.  Just convince them that you *really* want to spend 20 hours a day at the office (and then be prepared to actually do it!) and you'll be golden!  Good luck!

For Cravath you have to be top 1~3% realistically.

Why would anyone from 2nd tier law school want to work at Cravath. Cravath is a place where everyone is from HYCN. So...even Georgetown kids feel out of place. Umm...you know that people are gonna not take you seriously because you attended a 2nd tier, school full of sub-par students.

[themanwithnoname]

There aren't nearly enough T14 students with good enough grades to fill all of the top firms, thus they look to lower-tier candidates with high grades.  I'm assuming if you got a callback that you are top 5% (maybe 10%) of your class.  Of course they are very serious about you or they wouldn't waste the very large amount of money it costs them to have you do a callback.  I think in general once you have a call back firms are looking more for "fit" than at your credentials - but that's certainly not the case for every firm.  Just convince them that you *really* want to spend 20 hours a day at the office (and then be prepared to actually do it!) and you'll be golden!  Good luck!

For Cravath you have to be top 1~3% realistically.

Why would anyone from 2nd tier law school want to work at Cravath. Cravath is a place where everyone is from HYCN. So...even Georgetown kids feel out of place. Umm...you know that people are gonna not take you seriously because you attended a 2nd tier, school full of sub-par students.

That's not true at all, from a top 5 school you can be 10% and get an offer. They would not be interviewing you if they didn't realistically think they might hire you - they aren't going to waste their time. Are you on the same footing as a Harvard top 1% student? of course not, but you definitely have a shot. Congrats.

[Coolio]

There aren't nearly enough T14 students with good enough grades to fill all of the top firms, thus they look to lower-tier candidates with high grades.  I'm assuming if you got a callback that you are top 5% (maybe 10%) of your class.  Of course they are very serious about you or they wouldn't waste the very large amount of money it costs them to have you do a callback.  I think in general once you have a call back firms are looking more for "fit" than at your credentials - but that's certainly not the case for every firm.  Just convince them that you *really* want to spend 20 hours a day at the office (and then be prepared to actually do it!) and you'll be golden!  Good luck!

For Cravath you have to be top 1~3% realistically.

Why would anyone from 2nd tier law school want to work at Cravath. Cravath is a place where everyone is from HYCN. So...even Georgetown kids feel out of place. Umm...you know that people are gonna not take you seriously because you attended a 2nd tier, school full of sub-par students.

That's not true at all, from a top 5 school you can be 10% and get an offer. They would not be interviewing you if they didn't realistically think they might hire you - they aren't going to waste their time. Are you on the same footing as a Harvard top 1% student? of course not, but you definitely have a shot. Congrats.

What is not true? That you have to be at least 3% at 2nd tier to get Cravath??  You must be out of your mind!

Umm I know a guy who is top 15% at lower T10 who still got an offer...  So I know what I am talking about.

Its the 2nd tier that I am talking about. You can be top 20% at Top5 and still have a decent shot.

HTFH

[themanwithnoname]

You said that one has to be top 1-3% realistically to get a job at Cravath. You did not specify school.

[Coolio]

You said that one has to be top 1-3% realistically to get a job at Cravath. You did not specify school.

Umm...it's called logical inference.

The dude right before me said that he is a 2nd tier law student who is debating on cravath or something like that. So..... I was talking to him. Read the posts carefully.

HTH!

Top 1~3% at T14 is more like Wachtell level. Although I would say more like top5% at Harvard, 3 at CLS, and 1 at Duke (this is assuming WLRK needs lawyers that year).

[themanwithnoname]

You said that one has to be top 1-3% realistically to get a job at Cravath. You did not specify school.

Umm...it's called logical inference.

The dude right before me said that he is a 2nd tier law student who is debating on cravath or something like that. So..... I was talking to him. Read the posts carefully.

HTH!

Top 1~3% at T14 is more like Wachtell level. Although I would say more like top5% at Harvard, 3 at CLS, and 1 at Duke (this is assuming WLRK needs lawyers that year).

And you need to stop posting now, they need people every year. They don't interview at Duke. There are a total of 3 Duke people at the firm. You can't get it from OCI.

[csloan999]

Well here's my story--take it for what it's worth:

I'm at a school between T20-T30 and sitting at 12% in the class with only a secondary journal to show for it.  Got a callback from a V5 firm at OCI.  At the callback it was only students from T5 schools interviewing.  My interview went really well (got along well with everyone, wasn't nervous, everything was really laid back/easy), but I got dinged.  If I had to guess, I'd say my school/credentials definitely made me an underdog when I showed up at their doorstep.  I think I would have had to really "WOW" them to make up for that deficiency--much moreso than other candidates from better schools with better grades and law review.

So to answer your concerns, yes, I do think you have more to prove than someone from HYS.  But that doesn't mean you don't have a chance--they wouldnt be wasting all that money on you if your odds weren't at least 50/50.  I think that if I was from one of those schools I would have been a shoe-in given how well my interview went--I just think they wanted a little more out of me.  I had thought the credentials were out the window so when I got there I just played it safe in answering my questions rather than trying to really WOW them.  I can tell you now that it was definitely a mistake on my part to make that assumption....

[KrazyNazi]

Well here's my story--take it for what it's worth:

I'm at a school between T20-T30 and sitting at 12% in the class with only a secondary journal to show for it.  Got a callback from a V5 firm at OCI.  At the callback it was only students from T5 schools interviewing.  My interview went really well (got along well with everyone, wasn't nervous, everything was really laid back/easy), but I got dinged.  If I had to guess, I'd say my school/credentials definitely made me an underdog when I showed up at their doorstep.  I think I would have had to really "WOW" them to make up for that deficiency--much moreso than other candidates from better schools with better grades and law review.

So to answer your concerns, yes, I do think you have more to prove than someone from HYS.  But that doesn't mean you don't have a chance--they wouldnt be wasting all that money on you if your odds weren't at least 50/50.  I think that if I was from one of those schools I would have been a shoe-in given how well my interview went--I just think they wanted a little more out of me.  I had thought the credentials were out the window so when I got there I just played it safe in answering my questions rather than trying to really WOW them.  I can tell you now that it was definitely a mistake on my part to make that assumption....

This is correct.  I guess at the hiring committee meeting the firm will review the whole package, which includes your grades as well as performance on interviews. 

I got dinged by Thacher Proffitt, however.  Maybe that's because I showed up for the interview 20 minutes late and asked the firm if they would send a car to pick me at Greenwich.  So your performance on the callback does matter; they just might cut a lot more slack for someone from a better school.  I don't know why I even bothered with Thacher Proffitt, maybe I really love doing securitization.