Law School Discussion

Roger Williams is a scam

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #10 on: August 26, 2007, 04:31:39 PM »
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hmm, that is strange, being that my school has a higher salary than several lower ranked tier 1's, and I go to a tier 2!

I've give you the first chance to find the flaw in your reasoning.  Think of it as an LSAT problem.  Of course, since you're at a tier 2, thinking of it as an LSAT problem may guarantee that you miss it.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #11 on: August 26, 2007, 04:48:22 PM »
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hmm, that is strange, being that my school has a higher salary than several lower ranked tier 1's, and I go to a tier 2!

I've give you the first chance to find the flaw in your reasoning.  Think of it as an LSAT problem.  Of course, since you're at a tier 2, thinking of it as an LSAT problem may guarantee that you miss it.
what? One part doesn't represent a whole? You said "virtually any" which heavily implies all.  I gave an example of one that doesn't fit your generalization, which means your statement holds little worth.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2007, 04:58:15 PM »
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what? One part doesn't represent a whole? You said "virtually any" which heavily implies all.  I gave an example of one that doesn't fit your generalization, which means your statement holds little worth.

No, that's not it.

I say:
If outside tier 1, then bad job prospects.

You say:
In tier 2, and better job prospects than tier 1.

You overlook the fact that some tier 1 schools may not have great job prospects, either.

This is even overlooking the fact that the salary figures reported by USNews are patently unreliable.  They reflect the salaries of those in private employment who report their salaries.  At Michigan, if you have 85% in private employment and reporting numbers, the salary info is solid.  But if you're at STTTate U, where 15% are in private employment and only half of those report, the odds are that the group that reports its salary is self-selected to report on the higher end.  So you get a small, unrepresentative number that people latch onto. 

People from lots of law schools get jobs.  Some even get very good jobs.  But when you figure the median salary in the US for people with BA/BS is pushing 50 or 60, you have to wonder whether it's a good idea to miss three years of employment (and pay for tuition) to come out with the opportunity to make a PD salary.  That's not to say that there aren't T2 grads who do quite well (because there certainly are) but that, on the whole, it's a risky business.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2007, 05:24:09 PM »
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what? One part doesn't represent a whole? You said "virtually any" which heavily implies all.  I gave an example of one that doesn't fit your generalization, which means your statement holds little worth.

No, that's not it.

I say:
If outside tier 1, then bad job prospects.

You say:
In tier 2, and better job prospects than tier 1.

You overlook the fact that some tier 1 schools may not have great job prospects, either.

This is even overlooking the fact that the salary figures reported by USNews are patently unreliable.  They reflect the salaries of those in private employment who report their salaries.  At Michigan, if you have 85% in private employment and reporting numbers, the salary info is solid.  But if you're at STTTate U, where 15% are in private employment and only half of those report, the odds are that the group that reports its salary is self-selected to report on the higher end.  So you get a small, unrepresentative number that people latch onto. 

People from lots of law schools get jobs.  Some even get very good jobs.  But when you figure the median salary in the US for people with BA/BS is pushing 50 or 60, you have to wonder whether it's a good idea to miss three years of employment (and pay for tuition) to come out with the opportunity to make a PD salary.  That's not to say that there aren't T2 grads who do quite well (because there certainly are) but that, on the whole, it's a risky business.

except this isn't an LSAT problem, this is real life. The LSAT is the LSAT, you are gonna have a pretty weird life if you treat everything with the scrutiny you treat an LSAT problem with. Obviously, I am not talking about the tier 1's with bad job prospects, use some common sense.  Im not trying to trick you with a flawed argument, I am just making a statement.  I was directly comparing it with the Tier 1 school in my area to make a point. Maybe that tier 1 doesn't have good job prospects and that's why the numbers are low? Could be but I don't care. I was just trying to say that Tier 2 doesn't automatically mean fail.  The median salary fromy my school is like 70k (including public) and the private one was 80k. And according to the CNN cost of living calculator, 80k in Miami is equal to 145,000 in NYC, so I will be perfectly fine with 70-80k starting.  Also, people don't go into law for the starting salary most of the time, they go into it for the potential.  People with bachelor degrees making 50 or 60k out of school probably don't have the same room for salary improvement that lawyers have.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2007, 06:25:12 PM »
PEOPLE.  PEOPLE.

You are all missing the main point. 

1.  Roger Williams Law School is a SCAM.
2.  It is run by jew thieves.
3.  Google this school and you'll find they recently dropped their name after its owner said he hates niggers and poor kids.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2007, 12:01:16 PM »
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I was just trying to say that Tier 2 doesn't automatically mean fail.


Clearly.  There are tier 2 grads who work in BIGLAW and do quite well.  For most people, however, it doesn't make much sense to take out $100k in loans and pass up three years of income to come out and make $45k with a ceiling of $75k.

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And according to the CNN cost of living calculator, 80k in Miami is equal to 145,000 in NYC, so I will be perfectly fine with 70-80k starting.

I hope you're not seriously relying on the CNN COL calculator when you're thinking about this.  The COL calculator tells you that you can buy the same amount of stuff with that money in two places.  But most people aren't going to spend every dime on "stuff."  Eggs may be twice as expensive in NYC, but who really spends $80k a year on eggs?  Your fixed costs (taxes, student loans, investments) are going to be the same regardless of where you live.  It's not like sticking $15.5k pre-tax into your 401k in NYC costs more than it does in Miami.  It costs the exact same, only it takes up far less of your income in NYC than in Miami.  Same with other investments.  When you retire, you'll retire in a cheaper place anyway.

The COL tell you that it's easier to live on $25k in Miami than $50k in NYC.  That doesn't mean that it's easier to live on $150k in Miami than $300k in NYC.  Once you get past the area where most of your income goes to necessities--i.e. when you start dealing with truly disposable income--the COL stops scaling.


Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2007, 02:24:52 PM »
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I was just trying to say that Tier 2 doesn't automatically mean fail.


Clearly.  There are tier 2 grads who work in BIGLAW and do quite well.  For most people, however, it doesn't make much sense to take out $100k in loans and pass up three years of income to come out and make $45k with a ceiling of $75k.

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And according to the CNN cost of living calculator, 80k in Miami is equal to 145,000 in NYC, so I will be perfectly fine with 70-80k starting.

I hope you're not seriously relying on the CNN COL calculator when you're thinking about this.  The COL calculator tells you that you can buy the same amount of stuff with that money in two places.  But most people aren't going to spend every dime on "stuff."  Eggs may be twice as expensive in NYC, but who really spends $80k a year on eggs?  Your fixed costs (taxes, student loans, investments) are going to be the same regardless of where you live.  It's not like sticking $15.5k pre-tax into your 401k in NYC costs more than it does in Miami.  It costs the exact same, only it takes up far less of your income in NYC than in Miami.  Same with other investments.  When you retire, you'll retire in a cheaper place anyway.

The COL tell you that it's easier to live on $25k in Miami than $50k in NYC.  That doesn't mean that it's easier to live on $150k in Miami than $300k in NYC.  Once you get past the area where most of your income goes to necessities--i.e. when you start dealing with truly disposable income--the COL stops scaling.



you do realize that there is a middle ground between big firms and small firms, right?  I dont' expect to be making under 75k coming out of my school to start, unless i do horrible here for some reason.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2007, 02:38:29 PM »
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you do realize that there is a middle ground between big firms and small firms, right?  I dont' expect to be making under 75k coming out of my school to start, unless i do horrible here for some reason.

Yes, of course.  Unfortunately, the hours don't scale with the salaries; at most midlaw firms, you work 90% of the BIGLAW hours but make 60% of the money.

Re: Roger Williams is a scam
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2007, 05:40:09 PM »
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you do realize that there is a middle ground between big firms and small firms, right?  I dont' expect to be making under 75k coming out of my school to start, unless i do horrible here for some reason.

Yes, of course.  Unfortunately, the hours don't scale with the salaries; at most midlaw firms, you work 90% of the BIGLAW hours but make 60% of the money.

well what other options would there be for people that can't get into biglaw? I think i'd rather do that than settle for a 40k a year job.