Hovering around the median. Is it really that bad?

[rutherford]

Well the cost really isn't an issue. Rejection I can handle. As for shining stars, I like to consider myself in that category. I have some pretty great WE, almost too much to fit my resume. Plus, I know everyone says it doesn't mean anything, but my grades from my transfer school were stellar. Hell, my grades now haven't been all that bad aside from a rough first semester.

I think it all comes down to who I target and if I can get my quals packed into a super cover letter. 

From what I understand it's all about at least getting in for an interview. At that point, it's all about how well you can sell yourself.  Isn't that the case?

[jacy85]

As for shining stars, I like to consider myself in that category.

From candid conversations with Firm recruiters, ranking and grades around the median more than likely shut you out of this category with the big/national firms.  Their grade cut-offs are pretty strict.  The only WE that *may* get you a second glance is a hard science background, work experience in same, and passing the patent bar if you want to do patent work.  Even then, however, you may be looking at mid-sized or more local firms and patent boutiques.

I'm not trying to put you down, just trying to be realistic with the big national firms where grades and rank are typically the first and last thing recruiters look at before resumes even get passed on to the attorneys on the recruiting committee.  Your work experience and all that will help you out a lot with smaller and mid-sized employers though.

[rutherford]

You are correct sir. I'm aware of the focus on grades and rank, etc, and I don't think you're putting me down.  However, I will have to disagree regarding patent law being the only area where WE gets people beyond a grade cut-off.

In the consulting industry we work with large firms all the time and they value the fact that we have the same clients, know the field, and already have experience with the relevant area of law. I'm aware of a few people coming from similar backgrounds and situations that made the transition to larger firms.

In the end, I'm not specifically looking to work for a large firm. More importantly, I am looking to get a job that will assist in paying off my redunculus loans.

[1LMan]

Unfortunately, alot of big firms will not even read the cover letter until they see if you make their gpa requirement.  It's all and all a pretty ridiculous way to select interviewees, but what can ya do?  What about becoming a lawyer isn't ridiculous?

[rutherford]

Your right. It's pretty funny how the whole profession works.  There was an interesting article posted recently discussing how some firms are rethinking how they recruit strictly based on Grades/Rank. I belive it was because their retention rate was horrible.

You take someone ranked in the Top 10% that never has worked a day in their life and after a couple of years billing 2000 hours they head for ze hills.

[rutherford]

I think your chances at mid-firms are much better. 

You know I've never actually explored it, but what exactly constitutes a mid-firm? I have pretty much just found firms I'm interested in and applied.  If they have the practice area I'm interested in, are above 50 attorneys, and pay close to market. I guess I'm probably targeting mid-firms too anyway. 

Any firm names come to mind?

[kilroy55]

Your right. It's pretty funny how the whole profession works.  There was an interesting article posted recently discussing how some firms are rethinking how they recruit strictly based on Grades/Rank. I belive it was because their retention rate was horrible.

You take someone ranked in the Top 10% that never has worked a day in their life and after a couple of years billing 2000 hours they head for ze hills.

Well the whole profession has problems with over work.  Some of the larger firms have decided to switch how they operate with billable hours and recruiting.  They discovered, to no ones shock, that they are actually more productive and make more money if attorneys have flexibility in schedule and the billable hours are reduced from 2K down to 1700.  The ABA has done a lot of research in this area, so have many academics.  When I was researching this past year, I found out that, on average, it costs in time and resources a major law firm between 500K to 1 million to train an associate.  It usually takes about 3 years before a major firms believes an associate is sufficiently trained, however, that associate will more than likely leave due to the hours and work load.  So many firms are changing strategies by reducing hours and allowing flexibility, and they discover that people are staying and are more loyal and willing to work.

But this is still an exception, and not a rule.  Most lawyers work between 40 and 50 hours a week, only a minority work longer than 50 hours a week.  (Despite what some people on this board will have you believe)

[HRoark81]

I guess I've never thought much about it either, to be honest.  I would suggest that anything outside the AmLaw 200 is not Biglaw.

[rutherford]

Anybody have an idea of the liklihood of a midsized firm paying close to market? Or, is that just not possible?

[kilroy55]

Anybody have an idea of the liklihood of a midsized firm paying close to market? Or, is that just not possible?

What do you mean "close to market"?  What the average from you school is getting paid, or average based on size of firms in that area?  I can tell you, no mid-size is going to shell out 150K for a first-year associate who is in the middle of his class.