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Author Topic: Ideal 1L Summer???  (Read 4447 times)

nbf

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #10 on: June 30, 2007, 01:12:06 AM »
I'd definitely advise against taking 1L summer off.... at the least take a class or do some research for a prof....

Of course, the degree of badness is inverse to your school/class rank...

I can imagine a lot of interviewers next fall noticing that you did nothing legal related your 1L summer and giving you "So you don't like the law very much?" type questions.

FWIW I think a firm job is the holy grail for 1L summer (unless you dont plan on eventually working for a firm).

templeace

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #11 on: June 30, 2007, 01:26:06 AM »
This would be my hierarchy of what looks best on a resume for 1L summer.  Of course, different people will have different opinions.

1) US Ct. of Appeals
2) BigLaw or rare federal government position
3) US District Court or State Supreme Court (but some of these might be trumped by a solid medium law firm)
4) Medium law firm, state appellate court, or other federal government position
5) State government position
6) State trial judge, county/local government position, small firm
7) Public interest or county judge

Thanks for the help... this is exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Any 1L jobs I should steer away from?

hbkromeo

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #12 on: June 30, 2007, 01:35:38 AM »
Where does corporate counsel clerkship fit into the hierarchy?

This would be my hierarchy of what looks best on a resume for 1L summer.  Of course, different people will have different opinions.

1) US Ct. of Appeals
2) BigLaw or rare federal government position
3) US District Court or State Supreme Court (but some of these might be trumped by a solid medium law firm)
4) Medium law firm, state appellate court, or other federal government position
5) State government position
6) State trial judge, county/local government position, small firm
7) Public interest or county judge

templeace

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #13 on: June 30, 2007, 02:40:07 AM »
This would be my hierarchy of what looks best on a resume for 1L summer.  Of course, different people will have different opinions.

1) US Ct. of Appeals
2) BigLaw or rare federal government position
3) US District Court or State Supreme Court (but some of these might be trumped by a solid medium law firm)
4) Medium law firm, state appellate court, or other federal government position
5) State government position
6) State trial judge, county/local government position, small firm
7) Public interest or county judge

Thanks for the help... this is exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Any 1L jobs I should steer away from?

You might consider not worrying about how something might look on your resume. This is about your life, dude.  What do you WANT to do? It seems like you are ready to base this decision on what other people think. Worse, what you are doing here is asking people you've never met what THEY think other people you've never met will think about what you do.  And you seem to be giving this opinion some weight!!!  Why do you care? Are you your own person?  Are you going to law school just so other people can think you're cool?  Just to be "rich"?  Do you not have any particular areas that you interested/passionate about? 

That's so sad.  Law school would be much more fun if more people actually went because they were interested in working in a particular area and not just because they want other people to think they are cool/smart/rich.

Try thinking this - if BIGLAW doesn't like something that you really want to do for 1L summer, then that's a clue that maybe you will HATE working in BIGLAW, because your interests aren't compatible.  Then, find something else to do with law.  There's a lot of stuff out there, and you can get just as rich.  The important thing is to stay true to yourself and not care what some knucklehead hiring partner at a law firm thinks.  It's called being your own person.  And in the end, it's the only thing that will really make you happy.

It is awfully a shame when you can't even thank someone for posting an answer to a question you have.

It is always good to know information. That is why I asked this question. When you are an extremely bored 0L with nothing else to do with his life at 3 in the morning, I think I should have the right to come on here and ask if anyone in Portland likes Greg Oden if I would like to... if it is a great question that will spark a discussion.

I personally am interested in a several fields of law. I do not think that I will continue to be interested in them all as I continue through law school, and I will probably become interested in a few more. Since I know that I will not have time to ask these types of questions in late October, November and December, I thought that I would do research on different types of positions, their prestige, and the other factors associated with these positions. I don't want to... no let me fix that.... I will not be concerned with these things during the school year, so I will research these things now.

When speaking with professors and meeting alumni and members of the legal community, you have the oppurtunities to build a network and will come upon vast oppurtunities, but if I don't know a golden oppurtunity when I see it, shame on me. And if I forego one for a lesser oppurtunity, shame on me times two. Knowing the names of county, state and fed. judges, and other prominent attorneys in the legal community will be a huge benefit to me.. but I wanted a little help as to where to start. I get a kick out of research. I find it fun. But I refuse to go on google and type in Philly lawyer and start taking down notes (esp. with the great info you can find on forums like this).

I personally am a fan of BigLaw... I come from humble beginnings and really would appreciate a 10-14 hour work day as an attorney (alot easier than lifting luggage in the extremes of mother nature on an airport runway for 10-14 hours). To each his own.

And about what looks good on my resume... did you ever hear that your resume is what decides what you can do with your degree throughout your life??? If you do not practice law or take on unimportant jobs, it can destroy opportunities down the road that are only open to experienced attorneys with a certain set of credentials (I removed one of my credentials by not attending a T20 school). I will more than likely have trouble breaking into academia one day simply because I am attending Temple.

What I want to do is have a diverse, prestigous, and exciting career. The hierachy explained above isn't simply about a resume or money (even though I would also appreciate those benefits very much). Fed. App. clerks work with some of the most intelligent men and women in America, and that is why I wanted to be sure that a clerkship with them during 1L was #1. Possible #2 Worth it (i.e. how am I to be sure that a 1L clerkship with a fed. court or BigLaw firm would benefit me over such a small time period (with all the other, more experienced clerks working compared to a smaller enviroment where I slave for 8-10 hours and learn a massive amount about the law and have more responsibilities).

That is also a question I have:

As a 1L you are pretty inexperienced and some judges have prestigous published Law profs. working as clerks along with T14 grads who have already passed the bar. Would the clerkship truly be a beneficial and educational position or would I do alot of busy work?

And another answer to the above post..yes, I am my own person... my Mommy told me so lmao :P :p

rhombot

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #14 on: June 30, 2007, 08:08:44 AM »
everyone i know who's had a judicial clerkship says it's a great educational experience.
case '09

jacy85

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #15 on: June 30, 2007, 08:24:46 AM »
Here's what I think... if you are top 5% at a good school then I say take the summer off and relax and have a good time as it will be your last free summer for a while.

If you can get a BIGLAW SA gig as a 1L that is worth taking for the nice chunk of change they will give you plus a lot of it is social events anyways.  However a 1L SA gig is hard to come by, and usually only available for grads at top schools.  Since you are top 5% I would send resumes out to every big firm in your city and try anyways b/c you might still get a position. (if you dont go to a top school)

But if you have to settle for small/medium firm... Don't do it...A lot of people will say you need some kind of job experience for interviewing as a 2L, but if you are top 5% you are already in anyways.  Don't do what I am now doing... I am working full time for a smallish firm and taking summer school as well.  It sucks!  I can't wait for fall semester to begin.

Worst advice ever. 

Don't take the summer off.  I don't think there's an ideal summer job, since ideal is different for each person, depending on their goals.  It's important, I think, to get some kind of experience.  As long as you can make that experience sound interesting and convey to interviewers what skills you gained or improved, that's all that really matters.

Alamo79

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #16 on: June 30, 2007, 08:51:25 AM »
This would be my hierarchy of what looks best on a resume for 1L summer.  Of course, different people will have different opinions.

1) US Ct. of Appeals
2) BigLaw or rare federal government position
3) US District Court or State Supreme Court (but some of these might be trumped by a solid medium law firm)
4) Medium law firm, state appellate court, or other federal government position
5) State government position
6) State trial judge, county/local government position, small firm
7) Public interest or county judge

What would be "rare federal govt position"?  What would be "non-rare" position?

I'll update this after I finish 2L interviewing (and hopefully secure some kind of offer), but I'm pretty sure that I'm getting to do more substantive work as a summer associate in a small firm than I'd be doing in a larger firm (e.g., writing pleadings/motions instead of doing document review).  Large firms may look at this as a positive, in that I have useful experience.  They may view it as a negative, in that I've been working in the generally less disciplined small firm environment, for individual clients who usually have simpler cases, and that I haven't received any formal training.  I'll let you know how it turns out, but at this point, I assert that the small firm summer is underrated.

GA-fan

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #17 on: June 30, 2007, 01:51:19 PM »

[/quote]

I'll update this after I finish 2L interviewing (and hopefully secure some kind of offer), but I'm pretty sure that I'm getting to do more substantive work as a summer associate in a small firm than I'd be doing in a larger firm (e.g., writing pleadings/motions instead of doing document review).  Large firms may look at this as a positive, in that I have useful experience.  They may view it as a negative, in that I've been working in the generally less disciplined small firm environment, for individual clients who usually have simpler cases, and that I haven't received any formal training.  I'll let you know how it turns out, but at this point, I assert that the small firm summer is underrated.
[/quote]

I disagree- don't knock the big firm until you've tried it. I'm at a large firm this summer and I've been getting almost purely substantive work in areas where I have the experience to complete it. I've done one doc review project out of 23 I've been assigned, and it only took 9 hours. So far, I've written client letters, drafted a motion for summary judgment, written a ton of research memos, and attended hearings. I think it's really about the firm and its attorneys' "culture" rather than the size of the firm. I wouldn't trade my experience for anything (except an internship with SCOTUS, perhaps).

To the OP: I'd recommend that you apply to all of the types of summer work listed in this thread as soon after Dec. 1 as you're able. Many of the jobs will be determined by grades, but if you don't put yourself in the running before grades come out, you've lost the race before it began.

I've posted it elsewhere, but if you're not getting enough responsibility at your job and simply doing grunt work or doc review, SAY SOMETHING. Most people love it when you take initiative to challenge yourself for more difficult work. The 1L summer is what you make of it. For some, it will secure their 2L jobs via good experience and recommendations. For others, it's an extension of undergrad spring break. Go for the former.

vaplaugh

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #18 on: June 30, 2007, 02:41:00 PM »
First, the list is just my personal opinion.  You should tailor it to your career goals.  If you want to work at a firm post-graduation, try to get firm experience.  If you want to clerk for a judge, try to get judicial experience.  If you want to do government, well, you know the answer.

Well, I am not sure about that.  I know a few students at the bottom of my class, (top 30) that is working for DOJ, one is working on environmental issues.  I also know a few students from tier 4 schools that are working for the SEC.  It seems to me that most federal govt job are quite easy to get. 
But no doubt, solicitor general's office would be pretty hard to land. 

The intent of my previous posts is just to specify that there's a difference between some federal government positions.  I would not consider most DOJ positions as "rare" pursuant to the original list.  DOJ is a huge bureaucracy with many divisions and then smaller sections/groups.

Thanks for the help... this is exactly the type of answer I was looking for. Any 1L jobs I should steer away from?

No.  Steer away from taking the 1L summer off as one poster suggested.  Any job is better than no job.  The best job is one that is tailored to your future employment goals.  If you want to work for a firm, then bump up those firms on your own personal hierarchy.  As what other posters have said, I'd suggest not choosing one option just because it looks better on a resume.  Focus your job hunt on the field of law and the type of employer that interests you.

Where does corporate counsel clerkship fit into the hierarchy?

Beats me.  Probably in the same category as the different firms (for different corporations).  If the internship is likely to lead to full-time employment, and you want to work as corporate counsel (vs. other private sector options), then stick with the corporate counsel over other options.

I personally am interested in a several fields of law. I do not think that I will continue to be interested in them all as I continue through law school, and I will probably become interested in a few more. Since I know that I will not have time to ask these types of questions in late October, November and December, I thought that I would do research on different types of positions, their prestige, and the other factors associated with these positions. I don't want to... no let me fix that.... I will not be concerned with these things during the school year, so I will research these things now.

Excellent idea to get things checked off your list early.  You don't want to spend your weekends in November researching employers.

What I want to do is have a diverse, prestigous, and exciting career. The hierachy explained above isn't simply about a resume or money (even though I would also appreciate those benefits very much). Fed. App. clerks work with some of the most intelligent men and women in America, and that is why I wanted to be sure that a clerkship with them during 1L was #1. Possible #2 Worth it (i.e. how am I to be sure that a 1L clerkship with a fed. court or BigLaw firm would benefit me over such a small time period (with all the other, more experienced clerks working compared to a smaller enviroment where I slave for 8-10 hours and learn a massive amount about the law and have more responsibilities).

I see some people started discussing clerkships.  Lets clarify you meant internship/externship, correct?  Clerkships are post-graduation employment.

Certainly send off your resume to judges and large firms as a 1L, but don't get your hopes up.  It's great to have high goals, but again, these are very rare positions.

As a 1L you are pretty inexperienced and some judges have prestigous published Law profs. working as clerks along with T14 grads who have already passed the bar. Would the clerkship truly be a beneficial and educational position or would I do alot of busy work?

As a clerk, you will do substantive writing of judicial opinions (unless your judge strays from the norm).  As a summer intern/extern, you might do some busy work.  You're more likely to research specific areas of the law and write shorter memos to the clerks or the judge on specific issues.  Both experiences are valuable, but again, this might just depend on who your judge is.  They are just people, all different in their own way.

To the OP: I'd recommend that you apply to all of the types of summer work listed in this thread as soon after Dec. 1 as you're able. Many of the jobs will be determined by grades, but if you don't put yourself in the running before grades come out, you've lost the race before it began.

I've posted it elsewhere, but if you're not getting enough responsibility at your job and simply doing grunt work or doc review, SAY SOMETHING. Most people love it when you take initiative to challenge yourself for more difficult work. The 1L summer is what you make of it. For some, it will secure their 2L jobs via good experience and recommendations. For others, it's an extension of undergrad spring break. Go for the former.

Great advice!

randomdude

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Re: Ideal 1L Summer???
« Reply #19 on: June 30, 2007, 04:50:01 PM »
Best 1L job?  Something you'll enjoy that involves legal work that is interesting enough to talk about during a 2L interview.  Sort jobs that fit that description by amount you'll enjoy them.