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Author Topic: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western  (Read 1261 times)

just a rain dog

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I'm about send in my final seat deposit to Case Western and I'm sort of nervous about my job prospects upon graduation. I don't have any pipedreams about finishing in the top 10 percent of my class and making the law review. So, with that being said, how easy/difficult would it be to get a job making 60-75k/year following law school, given that I'll probably finish in the middle of my class?

jillibean

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2007, 11:12:49 PM »
I don't know much about Case but from what I have heard they have pretty stable job prospects and aren't as regional as other schools. I got them somewhere off the pre-law board so don't take my word for it
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brightline

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2007, 09:58:23 AM »
Forget what the pre-law board said. Students from schools in the top 25 have problems finding high paying jobs. $60-75K is high for an average student who didn't go to a top school. There is a huge drop off in pay once you get out of the range of the big firms. Not only that, but the more selective smaller firms and government agencies that do pay 60-75 aren't looking for average students.

Conclusion: if average students at schools ranked higher than Case have trouble finding high paying work, then why should a student at Case be any different? Sure, Case has a good rep, but it is not a top school.Most small firms, depending on where they are located pay around 40-55K. That is the kind of money you should expect out of a school like Case if you get average grades.

Are you paying full price for Case? If so, I'd consider going somewhere else. Like an in-state school or a school that has offered you an unconditional scholarship.

Gwiz

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2007, 10:12:26 AM »
I never understood that attitude.  Why don't yout think you can make top 10%? ???

Everyone around you is trying to make top 10%, and actually believe they can.  If you don't have that drive You may be destined for bottom 10%.  What's wrong with aiming for #1?  If you don't make it at least you make a good run at it.  Maybe the guy that makes #1 had a hard time getting there, and holding that place. 

Sound to me like you've already given up.
I wanna be a gunner when I grow up.

wakaranai

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2007, 10:26:34 AM »
I never understood that attitude.  Why don't yout think you can make top 10%? ???

Everyone around you is trying to make top 10%, and actually believe they can.  If you don't have that drive You may be destined for bottom 10%.  What's wrong with aiming for #1?  If you don't make it at least you make a good run at it.  Maybe the guy that makes #1 had a hard time getting there, and holding that place. 

Sound to me like you've already given up.


The OP is just trying to be realistic about his/her job prospects. It's stupid to go into a school thinking you'll be top 10% because the chances are high that you will be in the bottom 90% or around the middle of the class. Planning for that possibility just makes more sense than planning that you'll be in the top 10%. People who think they'll be in the middle probably make more efforts from the start to network and look more well-rounded for employers. I think 60-75 is probably a reasonable expectation. The Tier 2 in my area is up in the 70s now for a median private sector salary and it is not a high-paying region.

brightline

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2007, 10:44:40 AM »
The Tier 2 in my area is up in the 70s now for a median private sector salary and it is not a high-paying region.

NEVER rely on salary stats the school, or USNEWS provides. Those numbers are not representative for a number of reasons. Look closely at the numbers and the response rate. Anyone who has taken a entry level stats class should be able to tell that these numbers are not trustworthy.

From a school like Case, you'd need to be at least top 15%, maybe higher to get a job with a big firm. After the big firms, pay drops off considerably. Most smaller firms do not pay 70K to start. The starting salary is more like 40-55K depending on the type of firm and where it is located. If you are average gradewise, you probably won't even qualify for on campus interviews. At my tier 2, the cutoff for OCI is top 1/4. At Case, it might be 1/3 or so, and that's being generous. However, many OCI jobs are not big law. These are small and medium, regional firms. The big firms want people on law review and who are in the top 10-15%. That is the REALITY.

Talk to recent grads of schools like Case. Most law grads with average grades (who are not at top schools) do not find work until after bar passage results are in. Don't think for a second that because Case is ranked #53 and not #75-100 that you will be immune to this.

Gwiz

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2007, 11:14:07 AM »
I never understood that attitude.  Why don't yout think you can make top 10%? ???

Everyone around you is trying to make top 10%, and actually believe they can.  If you don't have that drive You may be destined for bottom 10%.  What's wrong with aiming for #1?  If you don't make it at least you make a good run at it.  Maybe the guy that makes #1 had a hard time getting there, and holding that place. 

Sound to me like you've already given up.


The OP is just trying to be realistic about his/her job prospects. It's stupid to go into a school thinking you'll be top 10% because the chances are high that you will be in the bottom 90% or around the middle of the class. Planning for that possibility just makes more sense than planning that you'll be in the top 10%. People who think they'll be in the middle probably make more efforts from the start to network and look more well-rounded for employers. I think 60-75 is probably a reasonable expectation. The Tier 2 in my area is up in the 70s now for a median private sector salary and it is not a high-paying region.
Maybe, but sometimes "realists" are just trying to avoid risk and disappointment. You can be prepared for middle of the road and still aim high. Class placement isn't a passive process.  Everyone has some influence on how they will place. I know it't annoying, but it's true: If you think you can, or you think you can't; your're right. 

She can face her challenge however she wants.  Hopefully, for her, everyone else in her class takes the same "realistic" approach.
I wanna be a gunner when I grow up.

wakaranai

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2007, 01:36:50 PM »
The Tier 2 in my area is up in the 70s now for a median private sector salary and it is not a high-paying region.

NEVER rely on salary stats the school, or USNEWS provides. Those numbers are not representative for a number of reasons. Look closely at the numbers and the response rate. Anyone who has taken a entry level stats class should be able to tell that these numbers are not trustworthy.

From a school like Case, you'd need to be at least top 15%, maybe higher to get a job with a big firm. After the big firms, pay drops off considerably. Most smaller firms do not pay 70K to start. The starting salary is more like 40-55K depending on the type of firm and where it is located. If you are average gradewise, you probably won't even qualify for on campus interviews. At my tier 2, the cutoff for OCI is top 1/4. At Case, it might be 1/3 or so, and that's being generous. However, many OCI jobs are not big law. These are small and medium, regional firms. The big firms want people on law review and who are in the top 10-15%. That is the REALITY.

Talk to recent grads of schools like Case. Most law grads with average grades (who are not at top schools) do not find work until after bar passage results are in. Don't think for a second that because Case is ranked #53 and not #75-100 that you will be immune to this.

I heard it from a current 3L, not from USNWR. The best way to get accurate information is by talking to students who are about to graduate. I don't think he got his information from USNWR.

Gwiz- some people work their asses off and don't do as well as others during 1L. That's because there is one type of class and not everyone is equally successful in that type of learning environment. While it's partially a matter of perseverance, it's just as much a matter of luck. In 2L/3L you can pick whether to take a paper class/seminar or lectures so people are better able to improve their grades by picking classes in which they'll do better.

brightline

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2007, 02:05:43 PM »


I heard it from a current 3L, not from USNWR. The best way to get accurate information is by talking to students who are about to graduate. I don't think he got his information from USNWR.



I've got to disagree with this. Talk to recent graduates who have passed the bar and are just starting to practice OR students who just passed the bar and have been looking for jobs for a bit. Chances are, their assessment of jobs prospects differs a little from those who are still in school. These are the people you want to talk to because they were average. Those who already have jobs lined up before graduation are not average.

brightline

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Re: Job prospects graduating in the middle of my class at Case Western
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2007, 02:09:33 PM »
In 2L/3L you can pick whether to take a paper class/seminar or lectures so people are better able to improve their grades by picking classes in which they'll do better.

Most schools don't curve as harsh after 1L, which is why grades almost always go up after 1L, although the above mentioned reasons might have something to do with. I still think the loosening of the curve is the biggest reason for 2Ls/3Ls getting better grades than they did as a 1L.