Attending Florida Coastal Fall '07

[vansondon]

enlighten me, bro, as to how telling people not to go to a rancid TTT (4TT!) is "unhelpful."

unless your point is that it should be plainly obvious that no one should go to this school and therefore such advice is unhelpful, in which case, kudos.

I'll do that after you give me a thorough explanation of how using terms like "rancid TTT (4TT!)" are helpful and contributes something valuable and informative in helping one decide to attend or not to attend a particular school.

It's valid to say that you don't like X law school for substantive reasons.  But without the reasons, it's just empty gibberish.

Explain.

[vansondon]

The downside of paying 30 grand a year (or, hell, any money) to attend a (for-profit!) fourth tier law school doesn't need explaining, man.  Not least of all with respect to the school (Coastal) that's pretty much replaced Cooley as a running joke on the Internet.  You don't need to reinvent the wheel, so to speak, in order to tell people not to go there.

What would be helpful?  A link to jd underground?

Well, I agree that the for-profit model in legal education is problematic and suspicious.  But the 4th tier argument as you've described it is very weak to me.  4th Tier?  So what? What about it?

That cop-out of an answer you gave wont do... If you're going to make these statements, you need to explain them, otherwise, I'm not convinced you even know what you're talking about.

A link to other hearsay forums (with anonymous users trashing law schools they either got rejected from or got kicked out of) isn't my idea of helpful... I think you know that.  I don't think you really need links.  I think you have the capacity to thoroughly explain your own ideas with reason and logic and all of the other tools you have access to.  But just spewing notions you may have understood as conventional wisdom from other message boards is not helpful, substantive, and seems a little pathetic. 

How much do you actually know about Florida Coastal for you to rail on it like you have?  Do you have data?  Know someone personally?  Did you attend the school?  Do you know any graduates?  Do you know any Professors that teach there?  What do you know about the school you're talking about?  In essence, do you know what you're talking about? That's all I'm asking...

No offense.

And I'll just say, sometimes reinventing the wheel is necessary, especially when it's made of stone... 

[reez]

Well, I agree that the for-profit model in legal education is problematic and suspicious.

Common ground, huh.

But the 4th tier argument as you've described it is very weak to me.  4th Tier?  So what? What about it?

What does that even mean?  It's in the 4th tier because 1) its academic peer assessment score is awful, and its lawyers & judges assessment score is awful (i.e., neither legal scholars nor legal professionals respect it); 2) it is wildly--absolutely insanely--unselective, probably because it profits by letting in literally anyone; and 3) its placement rates are awful (of which more discussion later).

So, it's in the 4th tier because it's just a very bad law school.  You say, "What about it?"  You sound silly.

That cop-out of an answer you gave wont do... If you're going to make these statements, you need to explain them, otherwise, I'm not convinced you even know what you're talking about.

It's not clear to me what would qualify me as "knowing what I'm talking about."  There are the facts, and they are on the internet, and I'm vaguely familiar with them, and I'm also aware of the reputation of the place (reputation, of course, being highly important in this our profession).  What do you want, me to visit Jacksonville and report that indeed the place even smells like a very, very bad law school?

A link to other hearsay forums (with anonymous users trashing law schools they either got rejected from or got kicked out of) isn't my idea of helpful... I think you know that.

I don't know that, and I can pretty much guaran-effin-tee that nobody got rejected from Florida Coastal.  At least nobody who would know how to use a computer and post things on the internet.

Anyway, the point of JD Underground is that it often has fairly lucid discussions about what life is like for lower-tier grads who have a lot of debt and very bad jobs.  That's sad.  It can be literally depressing.  This is something that should be of interest to a Florida Coastal applicant.

I don't think you really need links.

Ah, yes, because the relative worth of a law school can be proved merely by emoticons.

I think you have the capacity to thoroughly explain your own ideas with reason and logic and all of the other tools you have access to.

You are insisting that I use reason and logic to explain to you that a fourth tier law school is a very bad law school.

...

Let that sink in.

But just spewing notions you may have understood as conventional wisdom from other message boards is not helpful, substantive, and seems a little pathetic.

 

If you're saying that I'm misunderstanding the "conventional wisdom," then I'm saying that either you have no idea what the conventional wisdom on Coastal is, or that you just don't know what "conventional wisdom" means.  I guess I'm leaning towards the latter.

("Conventional wisdom" is the opinion that's shared by the group.  This operates regardless of your approval of that opinion.)

And yes, why the hell would someone who is interested in going to Florida Coastal want to know that the law school admissions internet discussion community thinks that the school is awful?  They surely would have no interest in hearing the conventional wisdom on the place, which wisdom is the product of and shared by a lot of people who spend a terrific amount of time researching and discussing law schools.  You are right--much to the contrary, Florida Coastal applicants are only helped by affirmations.

You are loved!

How much do you actually know about Florida Coastal for you to rail on it like you have?

I could know a lot less, honestly, and have a similarly low opinion of the place.

Do you have data?

Yes.  The tuition is 30k, and the average starting salary is 48k.  And unless Coastal is unique amongst law schools, that 48k figure is inflated by underreported sampling.  So, it's expensive and the grads don't make any money.  That's damning evidence, generally, though of course it is--sadly--not a state of affairs that is unique to Florida Coastal.  Many other very, very bad law schools charge exorbitant tuition and leave students with offensively bad job prospects.

The average LSAT is a 150 and the average GPA is a 3.1.  I'd rather make fun of the school than the students, but, come on.

PR gives the academic experience a 60/100, which as far as I can tell is literally the lowest score a law school can get.

Their flagship journal, Florida Coastal Law Review, is ranked 179 on the W&L metric, and that's out of only 200.  And there are only 190 or so accredited schools.  So it's not a bastion of legal scholarship, let's put it that way.  In fact, this means that it's one of the least cited and least respected centers of legal scholarship in the entire country.  Go figure.

Know someone personally?  Did you attend the school?  Do you know any graduates?  Do you know any Professors that teach there?

 

Thank god no, thank god no, and... thank god no.  Though I go to law school with a girl who knows some people there, and she legitimately pities them, I think.

What do you know about the school you're talking about?  In essence, do you know what you're talking about? That's all I'm asking...

Plenty enough, and, yes, I knew what I was talking about way before I started talking *&^%.

No offense.

None taken, but, really dude, don't go into this "you don't know what you're talking about!" shtick unless you're really, really sure that you in fact know what you're talking about.

And I'll just say, sometimes reinventing the wheel is necessary, especially when it's made of stone...

You've butchered this metaphor, if you're trying to insult my take on Coastal.  But suffice it to say, reinventing the wheel is neither necessary nor productive.  This board has been around long enough that I should be able to say that Coastal sucks without having to drudge up all the hard proof.

[vansondon]

Jesus you are a pain in the ass.  I've been posting here for two years, so, yes, I know my way around all the 4th tier arguments pretty well.

If you're demanding data to prove that employment prospects out of that school and its ilk are just awful, then, I don't even know man.  Then you know a lot less about this than the rest of us.

Tell you what, meet me back here at the end of the week once work slows down, and I'll explain to you very slowly why going to one of the worst law schools in the country (is this even debatable?  I got a full scholarship offer to Coastal without even applying) sounds like a pretty terrible idea to me.

Edit: hell, I'll just do it now.

Such hostility and animus... 

I mean what idiot gets downright rude and hostile just because someone asks him questions about assertions he's made?

Posting here for two years?  You're a f ucking liar!  You're a Junior Member with 5 posts you little dumb s hit.  So all of that crap you said about knowing your way around 4th Tier arguments is s hit down the f ucking drain... 

The fact that you would lie about posting on a message board for two years is creepy and pathetic.  What, you couldn't come up with a better excuse for why you clearly aren't able to defend or explain your empty assertions? 

I didn't say anything about "demanding data about employment prospects."  Did you read? 

You've reiterated again and again that you think Florida Coastal is a terrible school.  You've made that abundantly clear.  You still haven't effectively, meaningfully, or credibly explained why you think so.  Don't get all b itchy with me just because you're being asked to explain statements that you made, which you've still not been able to do!

Remember, you're the one that started this little back and forth discussion.  Don't get mad at me just because you don't know what the f uck you're talking about. 

You're little end of the week slow explanation won't be necessary, since you can't seem to explain a f ucking thing, not to mention the fact that you are a liar, and have no credibility.

[vansondon]

You're fun to talk to.

I joined in October '07.  Click my name.  Most people know who I am.  Sorry?

(If you were me, here's where you'd launch into a rant about how stupid I was for calling you a "f-ing lying poo" when in fact I had no idea what I was talking about.)

You said "I've been posting here for two years."  From your page, all of your 2007 posts were periods or ellipsis.  You posted one three worded message in 2008. And most of the 8 (total) posts listed under your name were posted recently.  I'm not seeing the evidence of the two years worth of participation you claimed earlier. You may have signed up in October of 2007, but you have not been posting here for two years!  Not to mention that October of 2009 marks your two-years as a registered user...  So telling me that you joined in October of 2007 has done nothing to help your "I've been posting here for two years" statement, because you haven't even been registered her for two years...

[and if you were me, here is where you would insert a continuum of my cursing you out, maintaining that you are a "f-ing lying poo."] 

EDIT: You're fun to talk to, too.

[Scentless Apprentice]

[reez]

tytyty.  this dude is delightful.

[Scentless Apprentice]

Yeah. I just hope you don't d-dub your long post. It would be great to people to see after they search 'Florida Coastal' (once they find the search function). You articulated some great points, and it was a very fitting, long reply to the silliness that was going on. Maybe if I quote it, you can go ahead a d-dub. Does it even really matter?

[flip_side]

I can say from personal experience that Florida Coastal is an amoral money making machine. There are very few qualms that the school has in pulling in huge amounts from less than qualified students. Probably about a quarter or less of students have the opportunity to transfer out to a better school- which would be a less expensive and better respected school, like Florida State. The rest who graduate are likely to be competing in a tight local market full of former classmates, namely those FSU and UF takers. Further, lots of profs there are new, though full of youthful exuberance, and from out of state. They often don't know diddly about Florida law. Its an uphill battle for many. Those on full scholarships with chance of transferring are the fortunate ones. Otherwise, graduating with this debt load and finding the mid range law job can be demoralizing. Personally, I think schools like this should have special oversight to prevent this sort of opportunistic feeding behavior. When a school advertises to its investors about the fabulous investment opportunities that the school can bring then this should send up warning signals about the administrations' true motives.