Substantive work after 1L?

[kilroy55]

This entire conversation is ridiculous.  You are trying to get advice from people about hypothetical 1L summer jobs when you haven't even started law school.  No offense, you could fail out your first semester, discover you hate law school or be in the middle of your class.  I wouldn't worry about your summer job quite yet.  Wait until you see if law school is really for you and how you do, then stress about finding a job. 

[Gwiz]

This entire conversation is ridiculous.  You are trying to get advice from people about hypothetical 1L summer jobs when you haven't even started law school.  No offense, you could fail out your first semester, discover you hate law school or be in the middle of your class.  I wouldn't worry about your summer job quite yet.  Wait until you see if law school is really for you and how you do, then stress about finding a job. 

You can't plan that way.  Now is the time to think about 1l summer.  You should have a 3,5, and 10 year plan.  You shoud revise your plan periodically.  You should be flexible but have an idea of where you would like this to end up.  If you plan and end up dropping out, fine.  At least you had a plan.  If you don't plan and choose to stay with it then, summer 1l, you'll be lifeguarding while everyone else is getting experience, resume building, and re-evaluating thier plans.

[kilroy55]

This entire conversation is ridiculous.  You are trying to get advice from people about hypothetical 1L summer jobs when you haven't even started law school.  No offense, you could fail out your first semester, discover you hate law school or be in the middle of your class.  I wouldn't worry about your summer job quite yet.  Wait until you see if law school is really for you and how you do, then stress about finding a job. 

You can't plan that way.  Now is the time to think about 1l summer.  You should have a 3,5, and 10 year plan.  You shoud revise your plan periodically.  You should be flexible but have an idea of where you would like this to end up.  If you plan and end up dropping out, fine.  At least you had a plan.  If you don't plan and choose to stay with it then, summer 1l, you'll be lifeguarding while everyone else is getting experience, resume building, and re-evaluating thier plans.

It is well and all to think about what you might want to do your first summer, but you are prohibited by the ABA and your law school from looking before December 1st of your first semester.  Most employers respect this prohibition because they all realize, like everyone else, that first semester 1L is make or break.  It is rough to realize it, but after my 4th semester of grades which just came in, you will pretty much stay the same from where you were after your first year.  Having 5 a year plan is great and all, but they are not worth stressing over.  The things you should be worrying about is goofing off the rest of the summer, enjoying yourself because 2.5 months from now the reading, briefing and studying begins, and doesn't stop for 16 weeks.

[Gwiz]

This entire conversation is ridiculous.  You are trying to get advice from people about hypothetical 1L summer jobs when you haven't even started law school.  No offense, you could fail out your first semester, discover you hate law school or be in the middle of your class.  I wouldn't worry about your summer job quite yet.  Wait until you see if law school is really for you and how you do, then stress about finding a job. 

You can't plan that way.  Now is the time to think about 1l summer.  You should have a 3,5, and 10 year plan.  You shoud revise your plan periodically.  You should be flexible but have an idea of where you would like this to end up.  If you plan and end up dropping out, fine.  At least you had a plan.  If you don't plan and choose to stay with it then, summer 1l, you'll be lifeguarding while everyone else is getting experience, resume building, and re-evaluating thier plans.

It is well and all to think about what you might want to do your first summer, but you are prohibited by the ABA and your law school from looking before December 1st of your first semester.  Most employers respect this prohibition because they all realize, like everyone else, that first semester 1L is make or break.  It is rough to realize it, but after my 4th semester of grades which just came in, you will pretty much stay the same from where you were after your first year.  Having 5 a year plan is great and all, but they are not worth stressing over.  The things you should be worrying about is goofing off the rest of the summer, enjoying yourself because 2.5 months from now the reading, briefing and studying begins, and doesn't stop for 16 weeks.

Right don't stres yourself out.  I agree with that.  You've got to go with the program. 

[yvyty]

  Most employers respect this prohibition because they all realize, like everyone else, that first semester 1L is make or break.  It is rough to realize it, but after my 4th semester of grades which just came in, you will pretty much stay the same from where you were after your first year.  [/quote]

Could you elaborate on why the fall 1L semester is make or break? I'm a rising 2L, and did okay my first semester. I have half the grades from my second sem, and it looks like I did slightly worse, thereby dashing my Dean's List hopes. Are grades really all that irrelevant after 1L?

[kilroy55]

  Most employers respect this prohibition because they all realize, like everyone else, that first semester 1L is make or break.  It is rough to realize it, but after my 4th semester of grades which just came in, you will pretty much stay the same from where you were after your first year. 

Could you elaborate on why the fall 1L semester is make or break? I'm a rising 2L, and did okay my first semester. I have half the grades from my second sem, and it looks like I did slightly worse, thereby dashing my Dean's List hopes. Are grades really all that irrelevant after 1L?
[/quote]

Well I think so, and so do most people I work for.  I actually just had a talk with my boss today, and she commented on how I should be set for honors and everything else.  She told me her situation where after her first semester she was 40th in the class.  She busted her butt off, got lucky with some people higher ranked transferring out to where when all was said and done she got into the Top 10%.  But you have to remember being 40th and moving up to 20th, thus being in the top 10% at a school graduating 200, isn't all huge a leap.  But she did most of this "jump" during her second semester 1st year.  My corporations professor said our grades should be indicative of what we have gotten all through law school, because people usually don't move all that much.  Now, I am not saying that someone outside the Top 10% cannot get into after the first year.  There are always those people who are the exception to the rule.  But, by and large, most people's rank will not change dramatically after their first year.  I think for two reasons.  1) People who are in the top of the class are afraid they will lose it, so they tend to work hard to make sure they keep it. 2) People who are not high ranked get discouraged or accept there rank, and stop worrying about it. 

[yvyty]

I'm feeling both sides of this. On one hand, I think my rank is pretty good considering my capabilities, so staying where I'm ranked is okay with me. On the other hand, I feel like I'm already giving 100% to law school and not being able to break out of the current placings is kinda discouraging. Thanks for your insight.

[Gwiz]

  She busted her butt off, got lucky with some people higher ranked transferring out to where when all was said and done she got into the Top 10%.

I hadn't considered that possibility. Good to go!

[kilroy55]

  She busted her butt off, got lucky with some people higher ranked transferring out to where when all was said and done she got into the Top 10%.

I hadn't considered that possibility. Good to go!

Oh yeah, this is exactlty how a lot of people get into it.  Also, people who were tops first semester, at least at my law school, can easily drop off second semester because you have 1 extra class that someone else in your class just gets.  I happen to be better at Con law courses than most in my class, so having Con law helped me out.  I was actually Top 15%, so going from that to 10% wasn't that huge a leap.  My GPA went up after second semester 2L by only 3 hundredths of a point (.03).  But I moved 10 spots, so I was suddenly into the Top 7.5% or some number like that.  I attribute my move, not from studying or working any harder because 3 hundredths of a point isn't that huge a grade difference, but from just drop off of people at the top.  But, as I stated this was all in first year.  My grades since have kept my rank at the same place.  I moved up one whole spot last semester, although my GPA dropped ever so slighly.  We are talking only a few hundredths of a point separating people.  People who do well and get it, will usully get it always.  They may have a class or two that they are not the best at, but by and large if the top in the class doesn't get, the people at the bottom don't either.  It is a vicious cycle.  But, I am in no way saying slack off.  Because the second you slack off and your grades drop, you have screwed yourself.  Wait to slack during the second semester 3rd year, where it will definitely not matter anymore.  Well for most people at least.

[TRad]

I'm a nontrad working toward starting law school this fall.  I am very concerned about debt levels -- I'll be 43 when I graduate and will still have a young teenager at home thus 70 hour workweeks at BigLaw to pay off 100k of debt is NOT an option.  I have significant fear of ending up with debt so high that I will have to work like this and cannot adequately parent my son.  Depending on aid packages, etc. I may decline to go to LS because of this factor.

I'm trying to assess the likelihood of having a decent paying ($2800/ $3000 per week) big or medium sized firm job for the 1L and 2L summers.  I'll be at either W & M or Univ. of Richmond and have some connections to firms in DC and Richmond.

Is it entirely foolish to count on such a job as part of my LS finance plan?  Or just mostly foolish?  Or not so foolish at all?

Your thoughts, please.