Thomas Cooley Students

[thorc954]

I have a brother who works really really hard and has a fiance that he lives with and supports that is a full time student.  Anyway, he only makes 35K a year, and is amazingly content with life and what he has in it.  I mean, I think people forget that not everything and everyone is about money when they talk about the jobs people get from law school.  I mean, @#!*, I will be working making 160K plus bonuses, but what they hell am I going to spend the money on? coke to stick up my nose so I can stay awake for the long hours?

Anyway, I completely envy people that go to cooley law school.  there is something to be said for someone that is doing something because it is something they want to do.  I hope that the students there dont have the illusions of grandeur that we tier 1 assholes always assume they have.  People in my class are being lawyers because they want the money (some not all), and you guys are doing it because you want to be lawyers.  If I had a hat, I would tip it to you.

Anyway, have fun in law school.  Thomas Cooley is in MI and that sucks, cause its cold, and I am opposed to anything cold, but they have to have great bars to warm up at. 

A little advice going in, dont let law school take over your life.  Everyone always told me to treat it like a 9-5 job.  I mean, I dont listen which is why I am in the law school at 1036 outlining when I should be sleeping, but try your best to have two things going on in life.

Sorry for the rant, I just hate when people are try to make fun of someone's school through comments about Cooley being un-accredited, I mean, f*ck, at least its accredited.

[jd4me2010]

I just started my fourth term at Cooley. I can honestly say I love it here. I have made some great friends and have had some great instructors (some bad ones too but it's great practical experience, after all here are many judges out there who are complete asses LOL). Cooley goes out of their way to give you the tools you need to succeed. Yes, a lot of people flunk out and a lot of people just give up. But, like the other poster said, the people who are here WANT to be lawyers, not for the $$$ but for the love of the law.

I have talked to several hiring partners here in town who prefer Cooley grads to University of Michigan grads!!! Seem impossible. It's not. Any one who is willing to put in the work it takes and not give up can achieve their dreams here. Are there people who really aren't cut out for law school here?? Yes, and they get weeded out early. There are also a lot of people here are are exceptionally bright and come from very good schools. I chose to go here because I didn't have a choice. I am a very bright person with an IQ of 138 who screwed up in undergrad the first time around. I went back 10 years later and finished my BA. I had a 4.0 over my last three semesters in undergrad, but it wasn't enough to pull up my earlier grades SO I came to Cooley because they gave me a chance. I will always be eternally greatful for them for that.

[thorc954]

I just started my fourth term at Cooley. I can honestly say I love it here. I have made some great friends and have had some great instructors (some bad ones too but it's great practical experience, after all here are many judges out there who are complete asses LOL). Cooley goes out of their way to give you the tools you need to succeed. Yes, a lot of people flunk out and a lot of people just give up. But, like the other poster said, the people who are here WANT to be lawyers, not for the $$$ but for the love of the law.

I have talked to several hiring partners here in town who prefer Cooley grads to University of Michigan grads!!! Seem impossible. It's not. Any one who is willing to put in the work it takes and not give up can achieve their dreams here. Are there people who really aren't cut out for law school here?? Yes, and they get weeded out early. There are also a lot of people here are are exceptionally bright and come from very good schools. I chose to go here because I didn't have a choice. I am a very bright person with an IQ of 138 who screwed up in undergrad the first time around. I went back 10 years later and finished my BA. I had a 4.0 over my last three semesters in undergrad, but it wasn't enough to pull up my earlier grades SO I came to Cooley because they gave me a chance. I will always be eternally greatful for them for that.

how could you have just started your fourth term?  yall are already on spring semester already?  and 2010?  just trying to figure out how they run things out there, not call you a liar cause i doubt you are.

[jd4me2010]

Ok, I shouldn't have to explain myself but here it goes. We go year round and I am part time. I started in the fall of 2006 and am just finishing my fourth semester (fall 07). See 1..2..3..4... Ok, now that we can all count together. I have finished 30 hours and will have 39 after this semester. (making me a second year student) I am scheduled to graduate in 2010 (thus the screenname) in the part time program but of course I can graduate sooner if I choose to do so.

On a side note..There are so many stupid comments on this board (present company excluded of course). Over half of the students at Cooley are on scholarships that range from 25% of tuition to a full ride(including me) and many came from very prestigious undergraduate schools. Many Cooley grads do in fact go into "big law" and Cooley grads are highly respected and recruited in Michigan. Our last bar passage rate was just a few points behind University of Michigan. But hey, you all make all the jokes you want. I'll go toe to toe with you in a courtroom any day.

[McLovin]

Ok, I shouldn't have to explain myself but here it goes. We go year round and I am part time. I started in the fall of 2006 and am just finishing my fourth semester (fall 07). See 1..2..3..4... Ok, now that we can all count together. I have finished 30 hours and will have 39 after this semester. (making me a second year student) I am scheduled to graduate in 2010 (thus the screenname) in the part time program but of course I can graduate sooner if I choose to do so.

On a side note..There are so many stupid comments on this board (present company excluded of course). Over half of the students at Cooley are on scholarships that range from 25% of tuition to a full ride(including me) and many came from very prestigious undergraduate schools. Many Cooley grads do in fact go into "big law" and Cooley grads are highly respected and recruited in Michigan. Our last bar passage rate was just a few points behind University of Michigan. But hey, you all make all the jokes you want. I'll go toe to toe with you in a courtroom any day.

Don't get so defensive.  It seems like the majority of people mocking Cooley are or were Cooley students.

[cooleyjay]

As a preamble to what I'm about to write, I'm in my 6th term here at Cooley.

Over the past few weeks I've been reading a number of blogs, such as this one, 4lawschool.com, WSJ, blogger, and others.  I think I can say I've begun to form a conclusion about Cooley.  There's the positive and the negative, the yin and the yang, the good and the bad, yada yada.  Most of all though, I've found that like much of the law, it involves a balancing of sorts.

THE BAD

First, if you decide to come to Cooley, accept the fact that no one has heard of this school - regardless of it being the largest law school in the US.  Also, accept that it's a safety school, and as such, attracts the stupid and the lazy - in the words of my roommate (and he's quite right).  I'd like to think I fall into the latter category, but you (and others) may disagree.

Second, maybe you'll be one of the rarities that secure a position with BigLaw upon graduation.  Likely though, you'll work for the government, non-profit, a small or medium firm, become a solo, or get an MBA, MPA, LLM, or whatever.

Third, there's NO prestige associated with Cooley amongst the academic elite. None.  Some, perhaps many, students will attempt to spin something like what one of my colleagues told me, "My Dad is a prof at __________ U., and he's aware of Cooley's attrition rate (thus knows of its difficulty) and agrees with Brennan's ranking system because it's objective."  Nonsense.  Cooley is NOT prestigious in the eyes of the elite.  No way, no how, not today, and not tomorrow.

Fourth, and finally, Cooley's as difficult as the other law schools - don't get it twisted.  People here like to talk about how much more difficult it is than, say, FSU or Rutgers or Marquette or whatever.  Don't believe it.  Law school is tough.  Period.  It's gruelling, abrasive, abusive, and emotionally, mentally, and intellectually draining - wherever you go.  Cooley is no exception in either direction (easier or harder).  Empty vessels tend to make the most noise.

THE GOOD

OK, so you’re still with me and you might be thinking I’m a cynical pr*ck.  I’m not.  Here’s why I came and why I decided to stick around.  Keep this in mind, too.  I didn’t get an entrance scholarship of any kind, only a bursary of sorts – so I’m paying a pretty big chunk of this myself.

First, being the largest law school in the country, Cooley has a LOT of grads – and more to come (currently 11,000).  People from Cooley are good people and support their own, and are all over the place.  Not only that, they know what it’s like to be here, and understand why the median GPA is 2.5ish.  As for the stupid and the lazy – well the world is full of the stupid and the lazy (and the dumb and arrogant and ugly and pretty and intelligent and tall and fat and…).  Get used to it.  Your clients will be all sorts.  If someone mocks you for going to Cooley or getting accepted or whatever, understand they have low self-esteem to begin with.  Knowing this, work it to your advantage by exploiting their insecurities and needling them hard.  Too aggressive for ya?  What profession is this again?

Second, like I said, if you get a BigLaw job, “awesome.”  If not, it’s hardly the end of the world.  There’s a reason BigLaw has attrition rates in the mid to high double digits.  Much of it is brainless monkey work that Indians should be doing for $20/hr but BigLaw won’t part with because they can charge $300/hr and pay some HLS associate $80/hr and pocket the rest.  Contrastly, working in a smaller firm, for example, you’re gonna get to go to court, do depositions, write motions, write memos, interview witnesses, perform trials – the “exciting” stuff.  A large law firm will not entrust a first year associate with these types of things.  They must “pay their dues” first – and rightly so, the work their firms are doing is serious, serious business; Conrad Black ain’t proceeding pro se.

Third, you want prestige, go to Harvard, or Yale or Columbia or NYU or UCLA or…. If you wanna be an attorney because (a) you find the law interesting, (b) you want to start your own firm, (c) becoming an attorney is a dream of yours, etc. and no one else will give you a deal like Cooley, then, by all means, come to Cooley.  This is a practical place.  You will NOT meet the next President of the US here (although you might meet a future chief of staff).  You likely will not become General Counsel for GE International – although you could sue the pants off ‘em in a products liability class action and make millions.  Get my point?  Practical.

Fourth, because T1s think we’re all retards, they never see us coming.  As of this writing, Cooley just won 5th best brief in the National Moot Court Competition quarter-finals, beating such T1s as Northwestern, Chicago, etc. to advance to the semis.  They think we can’t walk and chew gum at the same time.  Bush thought Iraq would be a cakewalk.  Clemens thought he could use HGH and steroids with impunity.  Capitalize on their arrogance and beat the piss out of ‘em.  They’ll never see it coming.

Finally, as someone who will be a litigator, this is my personal favorite.  Given all of the above – lack of name recognition, low status, allegedly few initial job prospects, “TTT,” and all that other stuff – work it to your advantage.  There are some arrogant bastards out of T1 schools who think that because we “think” we can make 6 figures soon after graduation, we must be suffering from “delusions of grandeur.”  They’re dead wrong.  You graduate from a place like Cooley, you know you’re scrappy; a hustler; a grinder – someone who has learned about determination, perseverance, and hard work.  Someone who watched about 25% of his incoming class get decimated by the war of attrition.  BS you say, “T4s can’t make close to $100K ever.”  OK, here’s one scenario: While T1s are slapping each others’ backs about salary prospects at $160K, corporations are scratching their heads about paying that kind of money to first year associates.  Here’s an opportunity – develop it.  Here’s the key: When you’re in the trenches, you gotta get innovative; be entrepreneurial.  If this doesn’t sound like you, then perhaps (a) the law isn’t for you, or (b) get into a T1 and start feeling entitled.

Give ‘em hell – and tell ‘em Thomas McIntyre Cooley sent ya!

[Bob Loblaw Esq.]

my favorite part the the last post was third full paragraph from the bottom, "no one else will give you a deal like Cooley"

deal?  hmmm, is that like, I give cooley 30k and wait for a year to see if i'm in the 1/3 of the class that gets the boot?

i think its great that you have found some positives about your school and have enjoyed the experience.  However, that does not dispose of the fact that law schools like cooley that prey on the ignorance of starry-eyed law school hopefuls are doing this world a huge disservice.

edit - when I say "ignorance," I am not saying that these lawschool hopefuls are ignorant.  I am talking about their ignorance of the terrible system they are about to enter.

[plex]

I had heard Cooley groups students into sections based on their gpa/lsat ratio...in other words...it puts all the students with scholarships together so that the majority of them lose their scholarships. True?

Also, how are there only 11k grads when Cooley graduates well over 1k now every year? Are they not counting the part-time students that makeup the majority of their student base?

[sir_scott]

Contrastly, working in a smaller firm, for example, you’re gonna get to go to court, do depositions, write motions, write memos, interview witnesses, perform trials – the “exciting” stuff. 

...

Give ‘em hell – and tell ‘em Thomas McIntyre Cooley sent ya!

Cooley:  Contrastly Your Honor! 
Judge:  Wha? [reeling in his/her mind, is that a word?]
Cooley:  Damn it all! Contrastly!!!  My client... ahhh...Contrastly! Constrastly Contrastly!

[FreddyPharkas]

I had heard Cooley groups students into sections based on their gpa/lsat ratio...in other words...it puts all the students with scholarships together so that the majority of them lose their scholarships. True?

Also, how are there only 11k grads when Cooley graduates well over 1k now every year? Are they not counting the part-time students that makeup the majority of their student base?

This is a fact. Not a big deal though, you know going in that if you're in the bottom third you get kicked out.