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Author Topic: Honest Scholarship Answers  (Read 1263 times)

ericptk2000

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Honest Scholarship Answers
« on: April 01, 2007, 04:19:50 PM »
I am hoping someone can help me.  I have been giving a full tuition scholarship to Michigan State University and I really want to know how many people lose it after the first year.  The terms of the scholarship is a 3.0 GPA, and they tell me they curve at a 2.91 or so and therefore it should be easy to keep.  The administration and random students at open house say only about 20-30% lose their scholarship.  However, the Princeton Review Law School book says that student's say that they do the "bait and switch" tactic and as few as 1 in 5 actually keep their scholarship.

How do I figure out what is true?  I want to trust the school and students, but should I actually trust the princeton review student response?  Is there any way I can find out for sure?
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StrenuouslyObject

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2007, 05:00:44 PM »
I am hoping someone can help me.  I have been giving a full tuition scholarship to Michigan State University and I really want to know how many people lose it after the first year.  The terms of the scholarship is a 3.0 GPA, and they tell me they curve at a 2.91 or so and therefore it should be easy to keep.  The administration and random students at open house say only about 20-30% lose their scholarship.  However, the Princeton Review Law School book says that student's say that they do the "bait and switch" tactic and as few as 1 in 5 actually keep their scholarship.

How do I figure out what is true?  I want to trust the school and students, but should I actually trust the princeton review student response?  Is there any way I can find out for sure?

That doesn't make sense.  How can so many people lose their scholarship if they curve that high?  That would mean that 80% of scholarship recipients earn grades which fall below the curve's mean.  Ironically, scholarships are given to the students who show the most promise and potential for succes . . .  or who have dark skin tones.

With the little reference you give to the PR book, I would have to defer to the school at this point.  Considering that MSU curves on a 2.9, you need to be ahead of the pack, but you don't need to blow them away.

Also, keep in mind that most scholarship recipients have their grades reviewed at the end of the academic year; thus, if you do average in your first semester, that doesn't necessarily preclude you from keeping your scholarship.

Bottom line:  Unless there are more details you can find which support the PR book, I'd defer to admissions; the statistics just don't make sense.

ericptk2000

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2007, 05:34:17 PM »
I am hoping someone can help me.  I have been giving a full tuition scholarship to Michigan State University and I really want to know how many people lose it after the first year.  The terms of the scholarship is a 3.0 GPA, and they tell me they curve at a 2.91 or so and therefore it should be easy to keep.  The administration and random students at open house say only about 20-30% lose their scholarship.  However, the Princeton Review Law School book says that student's say that they do the "bait and switch" tactic and as few as 1 in 5 actually keep their scholarship.

How do I figure out what is true?  I want to trust the school and students, but should I actually trust the princeton review student response?  Is there any way I can find out for sure?

That doesn't make sense.  How can so many people lose their scholarship if they curve that high?  That would mean that 80% of scholarship recipients earn grades which fall below the curve's mean.  Ironically, scholarships are given to the students who show the most promise and potential for succes . . .  or who have dark skin tones.

With the little reference you give to the PR book, I would have to defer to the school at this point.  Considering that MSU curves on a 2.9, you need to be ahead of the pack, but you don't need to blow them away.

Also, keep in mind that most scholarship recipients have their grades reviewed at the end of the academic year; thus, if you do average in your first semester, that doesn't necessarily preclude you from keeping your scholarship.

Bottom line:  Unless there are more details you can find which support the PR book, I'd defer to admissions; the statistics just don't make sense.


That is a good point about Princeton Review not making sense in this case.  However, it is also quite suprising that 30% of the students would lose their scholarships with a 3.0 GPA minimum if the class curve is a 2.94.  So that essentially means that 30% of the top applicants (because they achieved this scholarship) lose that scholarship because they end up in the bottom half of the class.  Does this seem plausible?  Could it just be a crazy curve with like 85% of the students getting a B- or C+ or with a crazy distribution around the median?

Any help figuring this out is greatly appreciated.
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StrenuouslyObject

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2007, 06:22:02 PM »
The fact of the matter is that without some additional information, there isn't much help anyone can provide when you onl have the mean GPA.  By definition, a curve factors in a standard deviation; what that is at MSU is anyone's guess.

However, what you might want to do is ask them for more information:  What percentage of students must get B+ or higher?  What percentage must get C- or lower?

Also, you might want to just be up front with them and say that, as you are being diligent in making your decision, you came across some information from a reputable source that discounts what you were told regarding your ability to keep the scholarship.  Maybe then will they be a little more detailed in terms of their statistics.

But remember that a 3.0 shouldn't be that difficult to maintain at a school that curves on a 2.9.  If you work hard and stay focused, I would hope that you'd be able to leap that bar, especially as a scholarship recipient. 

Bob Loblaw Esq.

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2007, 06:41:53 PM »
The fact of the matter is that without some additional information, there isn't much help anyone can provide when you onl have the mean GPA.  By definition, a curve factors in a standard deviation; what that is at MSU is anyone's guess.

However, what you might want to do is ask them for more information:  What percentage of students must get B+ or higher?  What percentage must get C- or lower?


Or, you can estimate based on their NALP data:

(for Michigan State University)

MINIMUM GRADE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN
Top 10%: 3.70 
Top 25%: 3.43 
Top 33%: 3.29 
Top 50%: 3.10 
Top 75%: 2.78 

I'm assuming that this is for 1st year class 2005-06, but it depends if the school updated with the NALP already. While this will change year to year, the changes within the percentiles are minimal due to mandated curve.

HTH

p0six

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2007, 07:43:07 PM »
The fact of the matter is that without some additional information, there isn't much help anyone can provide when you onl have the mean GPA.  By definition, a curve factors in a standard deviation; what that is at MSU is anyone's guess.

However, what you might want to do is ask them for more information:  What percentage of students must get B+ or higher?  What percentage must get C- or lower?


Or, you can estimate based on their NALP data:

(for Michigan State University)

MINIMUM GRADE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN
Top 10%: 3.70 
Top 25%: 3.43 
Top 33%: 3.29 
Top 50%: 3.10 
Top 75%: 2.78 

I'm assuming that this is for 1st year class 2005-06, but it depends if the school updated with the NALP already. While this will change year to year, the changes within the percentiles are minimal due to mandated curve.

HTH

Beware using the NALP directory information.  I know that my school at least has a more stringent curve for 1L classes than electives, so there is "gpa creep".  Just take it with a grain of salt.

ericptk2000

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2007, 11:32:04 PM »
Hey One time,

Thank you very much.  I couldn't even get straight answers from the administration.  The Dean of Student's told me "Wow, I never thought to keep the stats of those who lose their scholarships", like I am the first student EVER to wonder how many students lose their scholarship.  This process is daunting because I have no problem going to a school that is 3rd tier even getting into lower first tier or upper 2nd, because I want to do government law.  However, I don't want to pay 50,000 at the school because I lost my scholarship and get stuck at the lower scholarship.  It seems that my family and friends don't understand this no matter how many times I tell them about the curve. 

Anyway, I really appreciate your honesty about the scholarship process.
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azlaw09

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Re: Honest Scholarship Answers
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 03:02:39 AM »
What onetime says is dead on: If you plan on going to that school and would do so regardless of the money, by all means go.

However, if you are factoring that money into your decision process as far as what school to attend, whether to attend law school at all etc., don't do it.

It is no big secret anymore that a lot of schools do use the scholarship money to lure students in and then make it hard or impossible for them all to maintain them (stacking all of the scholarship students in one section etc. etc.).

Like One Time says, unless the scholarship is gauranteed or only contingent on "good standing" (usually a 2.0) don't let it factor highly into your decision.

Truth is, nobody wants to believe or even consider the fact that they'll get beneath a 3.0 or end up in the "lower" fifty percent at the end of 1l, but truth is, somebody has to be and it might be you.