Law School Discussion

Work toward transferring?


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Re: Work toward transferring?
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2007, 05:11:46 AM »
Read the Sanders study, the most definitive study of factors that correlate to law school success.

In summary,

-LSAT/GPA is strongly correlated to 1st year grades
-1st year grades are highly correlated to attrition
-GPA at graduation is highly correlated to ability to pass the bar.

LSAT and bar passage do not correlate.  It does have a lot to do with school.  Go to a school where you know you'll have a good chance of passing the bar, or you're wasting your time and money. 

I'm not saying that LSAT and bar passage correlate. I am saying that the overall caliber of the student body and bar passage rates correlate. How exactly does the law school itself influence bar passage rates? Lower ranked schools required more bar courses to try to improve their bar passage rates to no avail. Yet, the elite schools only have minimal requirements and allow students to take all kinds of crazy electives, yet they still pass in higher numbers. How is it that students that don't even take as many bar courses in law school pass the bar in higher numbers?

Don't worry about the bar. Just take BarBri after you graduate.

I don't think that you have to refuse to go to law school if the best school you get in to (or the school you want to go to) isn't the most prestigious school you could conceivably get into if things were different.  You have to know your market and your ability re: getting in to school.  Just because you can't get in to a top-ranked school doesn't mean you wouldn't succeed there, but along the same lines, getting in to law school in general doesn't mean you'll do well once you arrive, no matter how low the ranking of your chosen school is.  So go to JMLS, do as well as you can, and if you're at the very bottom of the class, take it as a cue that this may not be your thing.  If I were you, I'd finagle as much aid money as possible out of them.  After a semester (or a year) decide whether you think you'll be able to do anything with your degree (or transfer) and reevaluate. 

I agree with everything else you said.

I wonder what happens to second- and third-year grades?  Do people talk about this?  Maybe that's why transfer students do so well at their new schools, because it's all up in the air and LSAT/UGPA are no longer relevant.  Wonder why this is?

Re: Work toward transferring?
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2007, 07:00:12 AM »
My guess is that he didn't look at the other years as 1st year grades are a pretty good proxy for how you are going to do during the rest of law school. People whose GPAs greatly increase or decrease are pretty rare, although it happens. Plus he looks at GPA at graduation which gives you a good round view from beginning to end.

Re: Work toward transferring?
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2007, 07:16:01 AM »
I am currently a second semester 1L at JMLS.  The school has its ups and downs.  It is the biggest law school in Chicago which naturally leads to a lot of Chicago lawyers and connections.  I have heard good things about the IP program yet I am fairly unfamiliar with it.  The school also has an excellent legal writing program (top 5 in nation).  Now for the bad... it is the worst law school in Chicago and is often looked down upon by bigger firms.  You have to dominate in order to have a chance at these firms (although it is possible).  The school is also going through almost a bizarre dean search which has yet to yield any results. 

Luckily I did very well first semester (top 3%) but this is not easy to do.  I had to work my ass off as well as luck into a lot of positive opportunities and good help.  I wish you the best of luck and suggest that you attend here.  I am 75% planning on transfering out after this year so take that for what it is worth.  At the same time I would not mind graduating from here and all of the older kids that I know seem to be getting jobs and are happy about them.  Good luck!

Re: Work toward transferring?
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2007, 01:35:44 PM »
It might help to ask someone in the John Marshall IP dept. or Career Services Office for the name of an alumni with whom you could speak about your concerns. In addition, I notice that others here refer to the U.S. News & World Report Rankings ... don't forget that they did rank John Marshall's Advocacy and Legal Writing Programs Among the Nation's Top 10, and the IP program does well, too, although I do not recall the exact ranking for this year (14th?).

Good luck,

Lori McDaniel
Web Site Manager
The John Marshall Law School