Wayne (50% tuition) v. MSU (Full ride)

[ericptk2000]

I think Wayne is better from everything I hear as well.

[molaw]

Does anyone know the grading curves at MSU and Wayne?

According to http://www.nalplawschoolsonline.org MSU and Wayne's grading scale is as follows:

MSU '05-'06
Letter Grades     Numerical Equivalents
       A+       N/A
       A       4.0
       A-       3.67
       B+       3.33
       B       3.0
       B-       2.67
       C+       2.33
       C       2.00
       C-       1.67
       D       1.00
       F       0.00
 
MINIMUM GRADE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN
Top 10%:    3.70
Top 25%:    3.43
Top 33%:    3.29
Top 50%:    3.10
Top 75%:    2.78

GRADUATION HONORS
       % of Class Receiving    GPA Required    # of Students         
Summa cum laude:    4%    3.75              13
Magna cum laude:    11%    3.50              35
Cum laude:            13%    3.25              41

Wayne State '05-'06

Letter Grades    Numerical Equivalents
       A+       4.00
       A       4.00
       A-       3.67
       B+       3.33
       B       3.00
       B-       2.67
       C+       2.33
       C       2.00
       C-       1.67
       D       1.00
       F       0.00

MINIMUM GRADE REQUIRED TO ATTAIN
Top 10%:    3.65
Top 25%:    3.39
Top 33%:    3.29
Top 50%:    3.07
Top 75%:    2.80

GRADUATION HONORS
                % of Class Receiving    # of Students
Order of the Coif:    Top 10%       23
Summa cum laude:    Top 1%                4
Magna cum laude:    Top 5%                9
Cum laude:            Top 20%       41



Also, I received this email from MSU Admissions in response to my question about average GPA.

"The GPA of the 1L class for this year was a 2.94.  I can give you the % of students that lost their scholarship after the first year.  For last year, as we only monitor at the end of two semesters so this years students would not have lost yet, around 30% lost their scholarship at the end of spring, however they may have regained it back after fall.  Hope this helps"

[ericptk2000]

Hey Molaw,

Those are some interesting numbers.  I have to question the 2.94 GPA average if 30% lose their scholarships since at least the college merit scholars need only a 3.0GPA.  However, it seems the king scholars need to maintain a 3.3 GPA.  Anyway, did you get a free computer this weekend from MSU?  I wonder what kind it is anyway.  Thanks again for the info.  Have you decided?

[molaw]

Hey Molaw,

Those are some interesting numbers.  I have to question the 2.94 GPA average if 30% lose their scholarships since at least the college merit scholars need only a 3.0 GPA.  However, it seems the king scholars need to maintain a 3.3 GPA.  Anyway, did you get a free computer this weekend from MSU?  I wonder what kind it is anyway.  Thanks again for the info.  Have you decided?

I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers from that website I found.  For instance where it says "Minimum Grade Required to Attain %"  like MSU Top 50% is 3.10, maybe that should be interpreted that the Top 50% cannot go below a 3.10 but from year to year changes and could be higher?

So, if the average GPA last year was 2.94 and 30% lost their scholarships, then those 30% would have to be in the bottom 50% of the class, right?  I hate all these number games.

The King Scholar program GPA requirement is independent of the scholarship requirement.  It is my understanding that to remain in the King Scholar Honors Program you have to maintain a 3.5 GPA, but to keep your scholarship you have to maintain a 3.0 GPA.  (they raised the King gpa requirement to 3.5 for Fall 2007 last year it was 3.25).  So, you could be kicked out of the King program but still keep your scholarship.

I did get a letter for the free laptop on Monday.  That's a nice offer and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but a laptop is kind of a "personal" thing, and I would like the option to be able to pick what components, hardware, software I want on it, which from this letter it doesn't sound like you would be able to do.  I understand that they probably get some good university bulk pricing from say Dell or who ever.  It would be nice to get like a credit at Dell and then be able to pay extra to personalize it.


I'm going to Wayne's open house this Friday and I will ask similar GPA/scholarship questions then.

[andrewje]

Hey Molaw,

Those are some interesting numbers.  I have to question the 2.94 GPA average if 30% lose their scholarships since at least the college merit scholars need only a 3.0 GPA.  However, it seems the king scholars need to maintain a 3.3 GPA.  Anyway, did you get a free computer this weekend from MSU?  I wonder what kind it is anyway.  Thanks again for the info.  Have you decided?

I'm not sure how to interpret the numbers from that website I found.  For instance where it says "Minimum Grade Required to Attain %"  like MSU Top 50% is 3.10, maybe that should be interpreted that the Top 50% cannot go below a 3.10 but from year to year changes and could be higher?

So, if the average GPA last year was 2.94 and 30% lost their scholarships, then those 30% would have to be in the bottom 50% of the class, right?  I hate all these number games.

The King Scholar program GPA requirement is independent of the scholarship requirement.  It is my understanding that to remain in the King Scholar Honors Program you have to maintain a 3.5 GPA, but to keep your scholarship you have to maintain a 3.0 GPA.  (they raised the King gpa requirement to 3.5 for Fall 2007 last year it was 3.25).  So, you could be kicked out of the King program but still keep your scholarship.

I did get a letter for the free laptop on Monday.  That's a nice offer and I don't want to sound ungrateful, but a laptop is kind of a "personal" thing, and I would like the option to be able to pick what components, hardware, software I want on it, which from this letter it doesn't sound like you would be able to do.  I understand that they probably get some good university bulk pricing from say Dell or who ever.  It would be nice to get like a credit at Dell and then be able to pay extra to personalize it.


I'm going to Wayne's open house this Friday and I will ask similar GPA/scholarship questions then.

I'll see you there!   

[molaw]

Well, I just got back from the Dean Scholar's Luncheon at Wayne. (nice to meet you Eric!) According to Dean Wu and a few 2Ls I talked to, to maintain the 3.25 GPA requirement would put you in the Top 1/3 of the class.  That doesn't sound that bad I guess.

Although, I'm still undecided! grrrr.  I'm going to MSU's open house this weekend.  Right now I feel like I could flip a coin to decide.

[ericptk2000]

Hey Molaw,

Nice meeting you too.  I thought that it was much better than the open house.  I feel pretty confident about the law school overall, but I am going to MSU's scholarship breakfast and open house on Saturday as well.  Are you going to the breakfast?  If not, see you at the open house.

[EvanPickering]

Hey All,

I'm so glad I found this post, lots of great thoughts here.  I’m in almost the same boat.  I’ve been accepted to Wayne’s evening program and have been offered a scholarship from MSU for the full time program.  Both have their advantages it seems. It would be really nice to dedicate myself to school and get the degree in 3 years, but also I’m fairly happy with my job now and there may be advancement opportunities once I have a JD.  Anyone out there have any feedback about evening law at Wayne?  I’ll be at the breakfast and open house Saturday in East Lansing.  Hope to meet you and hope all our decisions are a little easier after this weekend.

[molaw]

Eric - I'm heading over to East Lansing tonight after work to attend the Canadian Brass thing at the Wharton Center, and then I will also be at the breakfast & open house tomorrow.  Wayne's luncheon yesterday was WAY better than their open house.  I feel bad for all the students who were only invited to the open house.

Evan - one of the students I spoke to yesterday at Wayne's luncheon was in the evening and day program last year as a 1L.  This year she is doing only the day program.  It sounded like the only real difference between her day & evening classes last year was smaller class sizes at night (which isn't a big surprise). HTH

[ericptk2000]

Hey Molaw,

Have fun at the Canadian Brass thing tonight and I will see you at the scholarship breakfast.  This has been a great week, scholarship lunch thursday at Wayne, scholarship dinner tonight at Toledo, and scholarship breakfast at MSU on Saturday.  That's one full scholarship meal in three days.  I should apply to law school more often.  Anyway, have fun and see you tomorrow. 

Good luck with your answers Evan.  I sat at a table that had an evening student as well because he was an engineer.  He said that the evening students are mostly engineers and people going into IP.  I also know someone who was in the evening program and now does labor relations for the city of Detroit.  There are some good opportunities in the evening program because most of the evening faculty are coming from legal jobs during the day.  Good luck with your decision.