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Author Topic: Smoking Ban  (Read 6279 times)

veganvenus

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #30 on: May 11, 2007, 02:00:49 PM »
You're still not saying what part of the constitution you interpret as "states can't legislate against taste".

unlvcrjchick

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #31 on: May 11, 2007, 07:27:17 PM »
You're still not saying what part of the constitution you interpret as "states can't legislate against taste".

And you still can't understand what I was saying. 

What I said was that states, under the 10th Amendment (there, I named a specific Amendment, are you happy now?), can protect the public in the name of safety and health.  I further argued that there are not enough studies linking secondhand smoke to cancer, and as such, there is no health basis (under the police power) to legislate against smoking. 

Ergo, this leads me to believe that such laws were passed not b/c of studies but more because of the anti-smoking lobbying groups (they don't like being around smoke, so they want to pass a law banning it in public = legislation of taste, and not for the safety of the public). 

This is the last time I'm responding to you, for it seems that you simply are unable to comprehend what I've said thus far, and I have better ways of spending my time (Law Review work).

CK

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #32 on: March 31, 2008, 07:17:02 PM »




In the state I live in (Illinois) the Smoking Ban went into effect January 1 of this year. Smoking is illegal in restaurants, bars, nightclubs, workplaces, and all public buildings (it is also banned within 15 feet of building entrances, exits, and windows). Illinois was the 19th state to pass such a law. AMA's President Ron Davis, M.D. called it "the strongest clean indoor air law in the country." Sherrill Keefe, tobacco projects manager at the American Lung Association of Greater Chicago, agreed. "A lot of other states threw in a lot of exceptions," Keefe explained. "We were very stringent in how we decided to allocate exceptions. An example of that is the exception that is granted to nursing homes. Although it is a public place, it is also people's private homes. Other states granted the same exception to gaming facilities and restaurants. Illinois didn't."

But the law violates the First Amendment's protection of Americans' right of assembly. "This is an issue of violating our Bill of Rights," said Garnet Dawn Scheuer, president of Illinois Smokers' Rights. "We are dealing with the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Under this law, smokers can't peaceably assemble unless it's outside." Casinos, bowling alleys, private clubs, and bars are traditionally havens where smokers have gathered. At the same time, many restaurant and bar owners are concerned about the ban's effect on their businesses. The Illinois Licensed Beverage Association, which represents retail businesses that sell alcohol, released a statement saying, "All-out smoking bans have a severe negative economic impact on hospitality venues that serve beverage alcohol for consumption on-premise. Of particular concern are independent, small, family-owned businesses. These businesses will fold first. If hospitality industry businesses lose revenue, cities will also lose revenue. On average in Illinois, hospitality businesses generate 1 of every 8 sales tax dollars. Can cities, towns, and villages really afford to lose this revenue?

Jumboshrimps

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #33 on: March 31, 2008, 07:22:33 PM »
In the state I live in (Illinois) the Smoking Ban went into effect January 1 of this year. Smoking is illegal in restaurants, bars, nightclubs, workplaces, and all public buildings (it is also banned within 15 feet of building entrances, exits, and windows). Illinois was the 19th state to pass such a law. AMA's President Ron Davis, M.D. called it "the strongest clean indoor air law in the country." Sherrill Keefe, tobacco projects manager at the American Lung Association of Greater Chicago, agreed. "A lot of other states threw in a lot of exceptions," Keefe explained. "We were very stringent in how we decided to allocate exceptions. An example of that is the exception that is granted to nursing homes. Although it is a public place, it is also people's private homes. Other states granted the same exception to gaming facilities and restaurants. Illinois didn't."

But the law violates the First Amendment's protection of Americans' right of assembly. "This is an issue of violating our Bill of Rights," said Garnet Dawn Scheuer, president of Illinois Smokers' Rights. "We are dealing with the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Under this law, smokers can't peaceably assemble unless it's outside." Casinos, bowling alleys, private clubs, and bars are traditionally havens where smokers have gathered. At the same time, many restaurant and bar owners are concerned about the ban's effect on their businesses. The Illinois Licensed Beverage Association, which represents retail businesses that sell alcohol, released a statement saying, "All-out smoking bans have a severe negative economic impact on hospitality venues that serve beverage alcohol for consumption on-premise. Of particular concern are independent, small, family-owned businesses. These businesses will fold first. If hospitality industry businesses lose revenue, cities will also lose revenue. On average in Illinois, hospitality businesses generate 1 of every 8 sales tax dollars. Can cities, towns, and villages really afford to lose this revenue?

This assembly argument is little and cute, yet gimpy, like a retarded puppy.

The law doesn't prevent "smokers" from assembling peaceably; it prevents people from smoking, whether violently or peaceably, in certain places. A whole arena full of peaceful smokers is perfectly legal, as long as nobody lights up.

Is this the best legal argument the smokers have at this point? What about the right to liberty, for Christ's sake? It, too, is a loser, but it beats the hell out of this assembly nonsense. How about Equal Protection? Is there a rational basis for the discrimination? In a freaking bar, for the love of God?

May the gods have mercy on the souls of smokers if they argue assembly in front of a sober judge.

call in

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #34 on: April 01, 2008, 01:32:16 AM »




In the state I live in (Illinois) the Smoking Ban went into effect January 1 of this year. Smoking is illegal in restaurants, bars, nightclubs, workplaces, and all public buildings (it is also banned within 15 feet of building entrances, exits, and windows). Illinois was the 19th state to pass such a law. AMA's President Ron Davis, M.D. called it "the strongest clean indoor air law in the country." Sherrill Keefe, tobacco projects manager at the American Lung Association of Greater Chicago, agreed. "A lot of other states threw in a lot of exceptions," Keefe explained. "We were very stringent in how we decided to allocate exceptions. An example of that is the exception that is granted to nursing homes. Although it is a public place, it is also people's private homes. Other states granted the same exception to gaming facilities and restaurants. Illinois didn't."

But the law violates the First Amendment's protection of Americans' right of assembly. "This is an issue of violating our Bill of Rights," said Garnet Dawn Scheuer, president of Illinois Smokers' Rights. "We are dealing with the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Under this law, smokers can't peaceably assemble unless it's outside." Casinos, bowling alleys, private clubs, and bars are traditionally havens where smokers have gathered. At the same time, many restaurant and bar owners are concerned about the ban's effect on their businesses. The Illinois Licensed Beverage Association, which represents retail businesses that sell alcohol, released a statement saying, "All-out smoking bans have a severe negative economic impact on hospitality venues that serve beverage alcohol for consumption on-premise. Of particular concern are independent, small, family-owned businesses. These businesses will fold first. If hospitality industry businesses lose revenue, cities will also lose revenue. On average in Illinois, hospitality businesses generate 1 of every 8 sales tax dollars. Can cities, towns, and villages really afford to lose this revenue?


Hmmm...
I am a {metaphor}. Actually, I am an {extended metaphor}.

mike4488

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #35 on: April 01, 2008, 01:46:31 AM »
Hmmm what about people's right not to die of second hand smoke.
Boalt Hall '10

C S

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #36 on: April 01, 2008, 03:47:06 AM »




In the state I live in (Illinois) the Smoking Ban went into effect January 1 of this year. Smoking is illegal in restaurants, bars, nightclubs, workplaces, and all public buildings (it is also banned within 15 feet of building entrances, exits, and windows). Illinois was the 19th state to pass such a law. AMA's President Ron Davis, M.D. called it "the strongest clean indoor air law in the country." Sherrill Keefe, tobacco projects manager at the American Lung Association of Greater Chicago, agreed. "A lot of other states threw in a lot of exceptions," Keefe explained. "We were very stringent in how we decided to allocate exceptions. An example of that is the exception that is granted to nursing homes. Although it is a public place, it is also people's private homes. Other states granted the same exception to gaming facilities and restaurants. Illinois didn't."

But the law violates the First Amendment's protection of Americans' right of assembly. "This is an issue of violating our Bill of Rights," said Garnet Dawn Scheuer, president of Illinois Smokers' Rights. "We are dealing with the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Under this law, smokers can't peaceably assemble unless it's outside." Casinos, bowling alleys, private clubs, and bars are traditionally havens where smokers have gathered. At the same time, many restaurant and bar owners are concerned about the ban's effect on their businesses. The Illinois Licensed Beverage Association, which represents retail businesses that sell alcohol, released a statement saying, "All-out smoking bans have a severe negative economic impact on hospitality venues that serve beverage alcohol for consumption on-premise. Of particular concern are independent, small, family-owned businesses. These businesses will fold first. If hospitality industry businesses lose revenue, cities will also lose revenue. On average in Illinois, hospitality businesses generate 1 of every 8 sales tax dollars. Can cities, towns, and villages really afford to lose this revenue?


Hmmm...


Hmmm indeed...

RokoMotion

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #37 on: April 01, 2008, 07:03:06 AM »
This is another case of confusing a policy you consider a bad idea with being unconstitutional.  Just because the government seems to have "no business" regulating matters of taste, that doesn't mean it lacks the power to do so.

In fact, I haven't seen a single real argument offered here yet as to why it's unconstitutional.  What PART of the Constitution does it violate? 

You may not like the statute, but that doesn't mean it's unconstitutional.

P.S.  I'm from Ohio.

motel

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #38 on: April 28, 2008, 12:41:40 PM »
tag

non parata est

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Re: Smoking Ban
« Reply #39 on: April 28, 2008, 03:10:53 PM »




But the law violates the First Amendment's protection of Americans' right of assembly. "This is an issue of violating our Bill of Rights," said Garnet Dawn Scheuer, president of Illinois Smokers' Rights. "We are dealing with the First Amendment right to peaceably assemble. Under this law, smokers can't peaceably assemble unless it's outside."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Quote from: Lionel Hutz, Esq.
Well he's had it in for me ever since I kinda ran over his dog... Well, replace the word "kinda" with "repeatedly" and the word "dog" with "son."