How important is the name really?

[johns259]

i'm soooo sick of this elitism bull.  i'm so tired of hearing such inside the box thinking.  to the OP: don't let these guys get you down! everyone has their reasons why they  chose a lower ranked school over t20.  a full ride is great, and maybe its close to home.  whatever the reasons, you felt you made the right choice.  if you feel that the right choice for you now is to transfer up, then great...do it.  by graduating from a t3/4 you might not get a strong offer your first year, but that in no way means you won't be successful in the future.  my advice - work as hard as you can and learn as much as you can now.  just because these people go to better schools, does not mean they're smarter than you...believe me.  and plus, it sounds as if you enjoy going to your school.

my brother graduated berkeley law 6 years ago, and now he's not even in the field! (he's in investment banking earning a shitload of money) he told me that a name doesn't matter, it helps but it can only take you so far.  he's met many people from prestigious schools that couldn't cut it in the work force because they don't have what it takes.  if you're clueless then there's always a glass ceiling.  if you're driven, then no matter where you go you'll succeed. 

i apologize for going off but i'm just sick of hearing people say that a NAME will make or break you.   

No, the name won't always make or break you if you have the drive (unless you think you're going to end up at Cravath or Skadden), BUT chances are that out of a t3/4 (assuming you're not at the top of the class) you'll end up spending five or more years in the workforce to get where you would have been in a couple years coming out of a T14. The name isn't necessarily everything, but it means A LOT. In my opinion, the speculated lifetime earnings coming out of a T14 more than makes up for any full scholarship that a T3/4 could ever offer me. Of course, none of this matters if you don't want to work in a big/mid-sized firm, but it sounds like the OP does.

[RenaldoBalkman]

Longstory short...

Because the OP went to a tier 3, unless she does exceptionally well (at least top 10%) then her biglaw dreams will remain just that.  It likely won't matter what other crap she her on her resume or how charming she is.

[WhiteyEMSR]

Have you looked to see what firms interview at Hofstra, and more importantly what firms hire largely out of Hofstra? Nalpdirectory.com would be a resource, probably secondary though to your CSO. I imagine that many of the top firms do interview at Hofstra, but you must be much higher in you class to get a postion. My situation is a bit different as I transferred from a 4th tier to a tier 1. But I was told by the firms I interviewed with that the school one goes to is of utmost importance. Consequently, very few people at the 4th tier I transferred from have secured summer jobs, not even the top students, law reviewers, moot courters, etc. It sucks, but that's the nature of the game.

LegalLatin, what Jones Day office are you at? I just accepted an offer for a summer postition from their Chicago office. Any insight?

[dorsia]

If you finish high in your class, you should be able to secure a summer associate position in a large law firm.  I am a 2L at a large, urban school ranked in the mid-60s.  I finished within the top seven percent of my class and made law review.  Most of the other members of law review were able to secure summer associate positions in large firms; many here, some in their home cities.  OCI was a very competitive process, however.  Those who were not in the top seven percent of the class, with maybe the exception of five or so students, did not gain summer associate positions in large law firms.  Some on law review failed to do so as well. 

The difference between top schools and the rest is this: at HYS and at a handful of other schools, you can finish anywhere in your class and attain a summer associate position at a large law firm.  To attain a similar position at my school and others similarly ranked, the process is very competitive.  At schools lower ranked than mine, maybe only five or ten students from the entire class will get something similar.  Obviously, there are certain jobs -- Supreme Court and circuit court clerkships; jobs at certain elite large law firms in NY and LA -- that exist only for a handful of students at a handful of the top schools. 

You can get a position at a large law firm; anyone on here who states otherwise is wrong.  Don't take my word for it.  Look at websites of large law firms and browse the bios of the associates.  But, it is competitive.  You have to finish near the top of your class. 

[Krisace]

Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.

[RenaldoBalkman]

I think this post is some lame attempt at validation by the OP. 

If she's telling the truth about getting into a top 5 law school and wants biglaw, it's completley ridiculous that she chose Hofstra.  I could understand taking a full ride at Hofstra over a lower or mid tier 1 school, but picking some TTT over Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Columbia, NYU?  Gimme a freaking break.

This girl is one of those spoiled lil law school chicks who drives a Mercedes Benz (bought by Daddy) and all of a sudden she's concerned with saving money?  BS.. 

Bottom line, there's no need for threads like these when the obvious response is that of course name matters unless she does exceptionally well at her 3rd tier "choice."

[WhiteyEMSR]

Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.

I disagree with a couple of things in this post. First, even people at T-14 jobs are not guaranteed a BigLaw job paying "first year total packages btwn 170-190." I know people at Georgetown and Michigan who were at the middle of their classes, went through OCI and did not land jobs. Even at top schools, competition for BigLaw jobs exists. As you probably know, big law firms hire almost exclusively from OCI, so if you don't get a job thorugh this process, you're out of luck, at least for the big firms. 

Second, the most any BigLaw firm starts their associates out at is 145,000 and even these are scarce outside of NY. I found one firm in Chicago that pays 145 starting. There are quite a few that start at 135. Even with bonuses, there are very few firms that would give a first year associate a total package of 190,000 and if this firm did exist, you would probably be billing 3,000 hours + a year.

[johns259]

Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.

I disagree with a couple of things in this post. First, even people at T-14 jobs are not guaranteed a BigLaw job paying "first year total packages btwn 170-190." I know people at Georgetown and Michigan who were at the middle of their classes, went through OCI and did not land jobs. Even at top schools, competition for BigLaw jobs exists. As you probably know, big law firms hire almost exclusively from OCI, so if you don't get a job thorugh this process, you're out of luck, at least for the big firms. 

Second, the most any BigLaw firm starts their associates out at is 145,000 and even these are scarce outside of NY. I found one firm in Chicago that pays 145 starting. There are quite a few that start at 135. Even with bonuses, there are very few firms that would give a first year associate a total package of 190,000 and if this firm did exist, you would probably be billing 3,000 hours + a year.

A number of DC firms are starting at $145k now, before any bonuses. There are several more at $138k. I can't recall what the avg. billable hrs. are though.

[LegalLatin78]

Here's my take.  I think that you should transfer up at the end of your 1L year.  You will have had a good experience at Hofstra and not paid a dime and that is awesome.  However, if you want to do M&A and securities work you need to get into BigLaw. To do that you would be doing yourself a major disservice in being at Hofstra. 

Also, be aware that there are a handful of people who scored around 170 at my mid-T1 lawschool.  I know for sure that some of them are near the 50% percentile in their class.  So work real hard this year and make the transfer happen...don't slack.

Transfer to any T-14 and you'll be guaranteed a job, with the work you want, paying you a first-year total package between 170-190K. The first year at the firm will make up the difference in tuition you'll be facing by transferring. But again, realize that if you want to transfer out of Hofstra to a T-14 you'll need to be at least in the top 10% and there's people with LSAT scores and undergrad GPA's much lower than your that are just now finally getting their academics in gear.

I disagree with a couple of things in this post. First, even people at T-14 jobs are not guaranteed a BigLaw job paying "first year total packages btwn 170-190." I know people at Georgetown and Michigan who were at the middle of their classes, went through OCI and did not land jobs. Even at top schools, competition for BigLaw jobs exists. As you probably know, big law firms hire almost exclusively from OCI, so if you don't get a job thorugh this process, you're out of luck, at least for the big firms. 

Second, the most any BigLaw firm starts their associates out at is 145,000 and even these are scarce outside of NY. I found one firm in Chicago that pays 145 starting. There are quite a few that start at 135. Even with bonuses, there are very few firms that would give a first year associate a total package of 190,000 and if this firm did exist, you would probably be billing 3,000 hours + a year.

At Jones Day you start somewhere in the 155k range (before bonuses) and you bill around 2100 hours a year.

[WhiteyEMSR]

LegalLatin, have starting salaries at JD changed? According to their website, the most they pay (before bonuses) is 145,000 and that is in NY. Chicago (where I will be) and San Francisco (where I think you said you are) are said to start out at 135,000. For my summer, I know I get the equivalent to an associate's salary; last year they said this was 135000, but they have not yet told us what the summer associates this summer will be paid. If things have changed, then yipeee!

Also, I've heard mixed things about the bonus structure at Jones Day. Is it true that bonuses are rare and inconsistent? I know they like to keep compensation type issues hush hush, but what's the deal? What are the annual salary increases like? Do they make up for the lack of bonuses?

Thanks