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Author Topic: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?  (Read 131575 times)

LVC

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #540 on: February 28, 2009, 04:44:11 PM »

Speaking of Heisenberg, the inventor of the 'uncertainty principle': he thought Heraclitus (you know who Heraclitus is, don'tcha) views only needed a bit of tweaking to bring them totally up-to-date:

Quote
Modern physics is in some ways extremely near to the doctrines of Heraclitus. If we replace the word 'fire' by the word 'energy' we can repeat this statement word for word from our modern point of view. Energy is in fact the substance from which all elementary particles, all atoms and therefore all things are made, and energy is that which moves... Energy may be called the fundamental cause for all change in the world.

By the way, Heraclitus was an aristocrat who lived on the Ionian cost of Greece. His preference for composing short, almost paradoxical philosophical epigrams later earned him the sobriquet 'the Dark'. But it is an innocuous-looking dictum about rivers that has made his reputation. You cannot step into the same river twice. Heracliteanism became a doctrine encapsulated by Plato as the view that "all is flux." But Plato himself was echoing Cratylus, who had only earlier decided for himself what it was that Heraclitus must have meant. Cratylus' idea that everything was changing all the time was then taken up by Empedocles, who embellished the other Heraclitean notion of a world continually torn between the two evocatively named forces, 'love' and 'strife', in order to reveal its essential character. The world becomes a sphere of perfect love in which strife, like a swirling vortex, has infiltrated. Whose idea was it, then? Heraclitus', or Cratylus', or...? It keeps changing.

But in any case, the point about the river seems to have been a more prosaic one to do with the nature of human experience. We encounter things all the time as being different, but behind the appearance of diversity is a more important and more fundamental unity: "cold things grow hot, the hot cools, the wet dries, the parched moistens." Not that Heraclitus is saying that the senses are deceived, for "whatever comes from sight, hearing, experience, this I privilege," he adds. Even life and death are as one, Heraclitus continues. "The same living and dead, what is awake and what sleeps, young and old... for those changed are those, and those changed around are these." The opposites are united by change: they change into each other. And change is the fundamental reality of the universe. The highest, 'divine' perspective sees all the opposites: "day and night, winter and summer, war and peace, plenty and famine," all are the same. With the divine perspective, even good and evil are the same.

Two thousand years later, Professor Hegel found in Heraclitus' swirling vortex of the unity of opposites the kernel of a new 'world philosophy', the origins of 'speculative logic', and the historical notion of perpetual change. For your information, it was not the first time Hegel was borrowing or echoing, whatever you wanna call it. In 1766, Johan Titius translated into German "Contemplation de la Nature" by the French natural philosopher Bonnet, where the latter remarks that maybe there are more planets in our solar system than were known at his time. Titus added to this remark that one may notice that the distances of the planets from one another can be approximated by a sequence of numbers that can be generated by an algorithm that is known as the 'Titius Bode Law.' Hegel's dissertation (1801) "De orbitis planetarum" revolves around the discussion of the Titius-Bode law and likely influenced his concept of history as a series of successive epochs from the Prehistoric and Asian, through Ancient, Feudal, Industrial and post-Industrial Stages. The predictive power of the Titus-Bode Law was improved by Stephen Phillips' formulation of the Titius-Bode-Phillips Spiral Algorithm, after he interposed Hegelian dialectic spiral of historical development on the photograph of the Whirlpool Galaxy, captured by the Hubble telescope.

At any rate, Hegel's battle between thesis and antithesis, searching for synthesis, led directly both to Marx's dialectical materialism and to the fascist idealogy of the purifying powers of conflict and war. But then, Heraclitus himself had declared: "You must know that war is common to all things, and strife is justice." It is only the heat of battle that can "prove some to be gods and others to be mere men, by turning the latter into slaves and the former into masters." Actually, there is another way of looking at Heraclitus. At the same time as he was outlining his theory of perpetual, cyclical change, the Chinese sage Lao Tzu was explaining the cyclical nature of the Tao, manifested in the famous interplay of yin and yang. But that is another story altogether.

 

This was pretty good.

Just some cautionary notes:

1. Heraclitus views are second-hand. He did not write a book, and the stuff we have from Heraclitus are a few fragments found in other historians recollection of him.

2. No one really agrees on his theory of fire, some co-opted it for their own use

3. His theory on unity of opposites is very complex. Under some interpretations it is completely incompatible with Hegel. For example, one idea of Heraclitus' theory of opposites holds the logos (logic) of the cosmos corresponds to the deepness of the soul, and thus even when we percive opposites, we are percieving the same logos. According to this interpretation, there can be no thesis, anithesis, or synthesis, since the unity of opposites would be a matter of perception of the logos. That is, the logos is the unity, and our perception creates the opposites. There would be no room for this idea of thesis or antithesis, or change, since everything stays the same.   

Another interpretation, would be that the unity of opposites was statement that each opposite is different from the other according to degree. For example, 1% Cold, is really 99% not hot.

Several others exist. The interpretation this quoted author proffers is not supported by arguments, but co-opted Heraclitus quotes (which is very easy to do). Readers beware!


Jung, too, borrowed from Heraclitus. As in the Heraclitean doctrine, Jungian psychology stresses the existence of a conflict of opposites, or enantiodromia. This is a term which Heraclitus used to describe the endless to and fro process of the eternal flux. The opposites are at war with each other, but in this conflict there is harmony, for both positive and negative need one another. Jung based his theory of compensation on this principle, claiming that the conscious attitude, at times, must be balanced by gaining awareness of certain unconscious processes. According to Jung, "Just as all energy proceeds from opposition, so the psyche too possesses its inner polarity, this being the indispensable prerequisite for its aliveness, as Heraclitus realized long ago." A good example of what Jung means lies in an explanation of his doctrine of the anima and animus.

Bear Love Law

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Re: Hegel After Derrida
« Reply #541 on: March 01, 2009, 04:57:54 PM »

We will never be done, says Derrida, with the reading of Hegel. When we think we have gotten beyond Hegel in trumpeting our escape from the strictures of reason, teleology, metanarratives, idealism, we are most Hegelian. Yet we frequently find, even in the most theoretically naive works, claims to have "deconstructed" prevalent interpretations or notions of reason, identity, consciousness, nature and the natural, morality, history, and so forth. Such trends may lead us to believe that we are done with Hegel, but, as Barnett says and this volume demonstrates, not only does Hegel define "the modernity that our postmodern era seeks to escape," but there is a Hegel that we have yet to examine. Just what deconstruction is still remains obscure for many. Sometimes confused with critique, at other times reduced to the absurdity of being unconcerned with truth, deconstruction has entered the vocabulary as something of a ghost, to borrow a figure from Derrida frequently invoked in this collection: its presence is felt but its features remain obscure. One reason for this ghostly presence is our refusal, or inability, to confront Hegel, whom Derrida calls in "Of Grammatology" "the last philosopher of the book and the first thinker of writing." Hegel, says Barnett, "taught philosophers to examine all fields of knowledge as quasi-autonomous language games... Yet Hegel emphasized the cultural and historical specificity of language games; he also devoted a good deal of his thought to dissecting the internal logic of various language games" These games, then, are not mere games. Hegel narrates the unfolding of spirit in world history and its culmination in the Absolute, but he also historicizes reason, charting its contradictions and limitations. He is both the philosopher of unitary reason and the thinker of difference. Ultimately, it is the role of the negative in speculative idealism, the otherness operating within reason, that makes Hegel's philosophy the limit that defines the modernity our postmodernity remains within.

In its confrontation with speculative idealism and the Aufhebung (a term that designates the negation, conservation, and elevation of a previous stage in consciousness), deconstruction is "to disrupt the virtual self-realization of onto-theology in speculative idealism." This disruption is not critique, the investigation of the criteria for philosophy, for it is not a work of making distinctions and judgments (in a Kantian sense) but a questioning of these very categories. Deconstruction operates from within the text, responds to its irreducible alterity. If Hegel's text, the "Phenomenology of Spirit" in particular, can be characterized as the totalizing thought of absolute spirit, Derrida's "text" can be defined as structurally infinite, a network without boundaries or closure. Derrida's "text" opens the self-identity implied in the traditional notion of the text by locating an unsublatable remainder that makes totalization impossible. The text, therefore, is governed by the traits of referral that make representation, self-reflection, and reference possible (impossibilities). This remainder reveals that the text, in this special sense, is already inhabited by its non-phenomenal other, its ghost, which both situates deconstruction within and against Hegelian speculative philosophy.

When Derrida called Hegel "the last philosopher of the book and the first thinker of writing," he indicated that Hegel was both the culmination of Western metaphysics and the beginning of its deconstruction. Barnett says as much when he writes, "Hegel's text, in its performance of the thinking of difference, comprises the enabling condition of the strategies of deconstruction." If we are to overcome Hegel (and modernity), then we must inhabit him -- which we do, whether we know it or not. And to overcome him is to repeat him, with a difference. This contradictory structure is to be found already in Hegel: insofar as the truth of consciousness is self-consciousness, consciousness is already self-consciousness. Absolute self-relation is attained only when consciousness has returned from its other back to itself as self-consciousness. But this pathway is never smooth; it is marked by disruption, relativism, and plurality. Christianity, for instance, is the absolute religion but must be superseded by philosophy, Absolute Knowing; yet, the Aufhebung of religion into philosophy is disrupted by what makes it possible, the holy family. In short, we are confronted with two ways of reading Hegel, which will amount to two ways of reading Derrida. Either Hegel's text needs to be deconstructed or it is already deconstruction; either Derrida's reading of Hegel is an intervention that disrupts the system or it reveals a Hegel who is a thinker of difference as well as the philosopher of Absolute Knowledge. Our either/or is more properly a both/and: what unites these essays is a strategy of reading that asks, what remains in Hegel's text after the holocaust of Absolute Knowledge/after the text is deconstructed? What remains is the necessity of reading Hegel for these remains, that is, for what does not allow itself to be superseded or appropriated in the name of Absolute Knowledge. The Absolute is fissured, divided or fractured, like the columns in Derrida's most sustained reading of Hegel, Glas.

In asking why Hegel figures so prominently in Glas when Derrida's analysis of the family and phallocentrism points to psychoanalysis, Suzanne Gearhart proposes that the Aufhebung is equivalent to Freud's concept of repression, which cannot be understood in terms of what is repressed "but only in terms of repression itself" as an ongoing process that serves the system of idealization; it does not merely forget or suppress but "also creates signification and value." The Aufhebung is the equivalent of repression insofar as it constitutes rational self-consciousness but is itself prerational, as is revealed in Derrida's analysis of the Hegelian family. Gearhart advises us to address the question of sexuality or gender from the concept of repression or else we lapse into a pre-Freudian logic of fetishism.



In "White Mythology," which appears in Derrida's book "Margins of Philosophy" Derrida shows how philosophy has always tried to push literary language to the margins. Philosophical language is supposedly free of rhetoric and metaphor. Thus philosophers have long dreamt of a pure language that escapes the frivolities of literary writing. Philosophers, trying to purge philosophical language of metaphor, push it to the margins. Derrida, however, sees this as one more attempt to repress writing in favor of a language of presence -- a language that can present the Truth. The dream of such a clean, proper language -- without metaphor -- has been philosophy's big wet dream. Derrida calls this dream "White Muthology," and shows that all the concepts that philosophers have used to push metaphor to the margins of philosophy are themselves metaphorical. He continues to blur the line between solemn truth-seeking Philosophy and playful, frivolous Literature in another important work -- "Glas." In that horrible German language glas means knell, like the tolling or knelling of a bell! And for Derrida's intent this knell marks the death of meaning!

It seems as though Derrida's intent is to do away with the notion that a reader can discover an author's intent. In fact, Derrida says he is attempting to alientate "all readers who believe in literature or anything." Each page in "Glas" has two columns, like two corners of a boxing or wrestling ring. "Glas" features Philosophy in the left hand column, and Literature in the right hand column. Philosophy is represented by Hegel and his totalitarian quest for Absolute Knowledge. Derrida plays upon the sound of Hegel's name, turning it into aigle (Eagle) -- an Eagle soaring ever upwards in its search for Absolute Knowledge. This "Eagle" ascends upon the winds of dialectic. Hegel believed that knowledge proceeds through a process of thesis, antithesis, and synthesis. For instance, if the idea of pure Being is the thesis, then Nothing is thye anti-thesis. They are opposites that are brought together by the synthesis, which is beyond them both. For Hegel, the Mind is like a soaring Eagle that knows itself through this process of dialectic.


One of the best quotes from Derrida is:

To pretend, I actually do the thing: I have therefore only pretended to pretend.


Well, if Derrida has managed to turn much of Western thought on its head, he has done so only by standing on the shoulders of Nietzsche, Freud, Heidegger and Saussure. Through his statement that "God is dead" and his attack on Christianity and the Western metaphysical tradition, Nietzsche exploded the very center of Western thought, creating something of a religious void. But Westerners don't tolerate voids very well. Traditionally we don't pray to holes in the wall, devoutly mumbling "O sacred hole!" Unlike Taoists and Buddhists, we are inheritors and inhabitants of a worldview esteeming presence over absence -- icon over nonexistence -- wholes over holes. We relish the look, taste, texture and flagrance of pomegranates and poises -- of things. Thus we have tried to fill in this void in various ways, have tried to establish a new center: with Modernist art, with myth, with music, with poetry, with dream archetypes, by chanting Hare Krishna, or worshipping Kahuna, with scientific certainty, with structuralism.

Aunt Dicka

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #542 on: March 02, 2009, 05:08:41 PM »

Can "consumer society" accurately describe the American polity? Does it not exist in actuality a priority of producer over consumer interests? It is obvious to anyone with eyes to see and bodies to be comforted. Contemplate the design of most airplanes and airports and explain how high consumer/user interests rank in the society's priorities. Enter an airport and sit, sometimes for hours, with 1,000 other consumers of airline services in a stifling waiting room with a 12-foot ceiling; or wedge yourself into a 15-by-18-inch seat, where your neighbor's backrest protrudes within a foot of your chest; or stand anxiously by one of the 4-5 toilets provided onboard to serve 400 passengers and try to imagine how lucky you are to live in "a consumer society." Nor do the rules seem consumer-friendly that allow overbooked airlines to bump passengers waiting to board; or to deny a passenger the right to switch to another airline without further charges when various troubles on the booked airline lead to many hours of delay, and sometimes cause cancellation too late for a passenger to find a reasonable alternative mode of travel — to say nothing of the costs of missing a connecting flight.

How consumer friendly are those gas stations (once called service stations) that require consumers to pump their own gas or else pay an outsize premium per gallon? And can there be more frustrating moments in a working day than fighting with an electronic "pay station" in parking garages and lots that employ no attendants at all ("cost savings") and where the often balky machine must produce an entry ticket; and then later process the parking slip to permit exiting?

How are consumer interests served when personal telephone records are legally available for a price and for sale at a profit? (Locatecell.com is only one corporation that legally mines and then sells such information to any business or government agency that cares to pay for it.) Consumers of cell-phone services come last when producers see profit opportunities.

How well are consumer interests served when the law allows pushers of products to intrude at will upon our telephones, Internet, and fax machines? Or to pop ads onto television screens, more or less continuously, during an ongoing drama, sitcom, or sports program; or onto a computer screen, sometimes freezing a word-processing session? Even national public radio and television stations, partly supported by consumer subscriptions, now present several minutes of ads each hour, necessitated by cuts in congressional support. More than 80 years ago, that old radical Herbert Hoover, then secretary of commerce when radio was new, declared, "It is unconceivable that we should allow so great a possibility for service to be drowned in advertising." How quaint!

Consumers are themselves to blame, seeing themselves first as producers rather than consumers. If there are many who would complain, the media — which are dependent on producers' ads — are not likely to give them much time or space. But who's complaining?


Great post, perci!
 

Perçi makes a very good point indeed! Airports, gas stations, phones (cell phones), Internet, all the examples given are to-the-point!

Jon Jay

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Re: Now brain drain from Britain to India
« Reply #543 on: March 10, 2009, 02:53:33 PM »

[...] These include Indian doctors who came to the UK some years ago and are now choosing to return home for better working conditions. [...]


I'm wondering what was it that sounded so strange about it?
 

UK is a much more developed country where they can, generally speaking, earn much more than back in their native country, India.

just Trev

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #544 on: March 11, 2009, 12:43:08 PM »
god...

i'm so sorry i ever posted in this thread...

i can never get rid of it in my 'unread replies' folder...

::hating self::...

analyze that...


in plain English

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Re: New Yorkers stuck with syrupy smell, but can breathe easy
« Reply #545 on: March 17, 2009, 05:18:24 PM »

I wouldn't blame them for posting this crap, santropez -- I mean, you can find weird stuff even on CNN -- take a look at this one LOL ;)

New Yorkers stuck with syrupy smell, but can breathe easy

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The source of a mysterious maple syrup-like smell that has periodically blanketed New York is not a particularly aromatic pancake house but a New Jersey factory involved in the processing of fenugreek seeds, Mayor Michael Bloomberg announced Thursday. The sweet aroma first descended upon Manhattan and northern New Jersey in October 2005, initially triggering several building evacuations as well as concern the scent was physically harmful. Authorities from the Office of Emergency Management soon concluded it posed no danger to the public. The odor made several return appearances in subsequent years, each time confounding nostrils before vanishing as perplexingly as it arrived.

Comparing information about local wind speed, wind direction and air humidity against the locations of citizen complaints about the smell, officials from the city's Department of Environmental Protection narrowed down the potential source to four factories in northern New Jersey that produce food additives and fragrances. Last week, when several dozen residents of Upper Manhattan called to complain about the smell, the environmental department, having developed a new evidence gathering procedure, gathered air samples from each suspected source in canisters. Tests revealed the pungent perpetrator of that incident was a Hudson County facility owned by Frutorom, a company that develops and manufactures flavors for the food, fragrance and pharmaceutical industries.

The specific chemical agents responsible for the scent are esters, compounds "created by the reaction between an alcohol and an acid" during the processing of fenugreek seeds, according to Bloomberg. Toasted fenugreek seeds are often used in the production of artificial syrups and in the cuisines of a number of cultures. The mayor said New Jersey officials, who cooperated with New York in the investigation, had concluded that Frutorom had not violated any rules. He said New Yorkers will have to tolerate the syrup smell's occasional return, noting that it's a relatively benign odor. "All things considered I can think of a lot of things worse than maple syrup," he said.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/02/05/NY.syrup.smell/index.html


It may seem "crap" and "weird stuff" to you, beyond aurora, but if you'd visit NYC even for a single day you'd easily notice this is indeed a serious issue to be dealt with!

Miliga

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #546 on: March 17, 2009, 07:21:09 PM »

Manchester United are confident they can negotiate an even more lucrative shirt sponsorship deal when their current arrangement with AIG ends next year.

By Rory Smith
Last Updated: 7:34PM GMT 21 Jan 2009


Parting company: AIG will not renew sponsorship deal with United

The US insurance giant, the recipient of an $85 billion government bail-out in September, revealed on Wednesday that they will not renew their contract when it expires after the 2009-10 season. United have already contacted dozens of blue chip companies, including the Indian finance and media giant Sahara, inviting them to tender an offer to replace AIG, who signed a £19 million annual tie-up in 2006. The club's chief executive, David Gill, admitted in November that he could envisage AIG not renewing the partnership because of the bail-out and United have been sure not to make the same mistake they did three years ago, when Vodafone announced they were pulling out with six months' notice.

Industry experts believe that, despite the global economic slump, United could hope to match Bayern Munich's arrangement with T-Mobile and Juventus's with Fiat, both thought to be worth around £22 million per season. They are expected to turn to the market of the Far East, as well as the Gulf and the Indian subcontinent, as they look to extend the United brand reach across the globe. Firms like Saudi Telecom, already a commercial partner of the club, are thought to have been targeted as United aim to put a deal in place as quickly as possible. Drew Barrand, of Sport Industry Group, said: "United are worth so much as a brand that the normal rules don't really apply. They hold all the aces in this situation. Their brand is so valuable that they will have no problems replacing AIG and could even receive compensation if they decide to end the sponsorship deal early. "They will look to the emerging markets where there is a strong attachment to the Premier League and plenty of companies who would love the prestige of being United's sponsors." A club spokesman said: "Even in the current climate companies have to advertise and AIG would testify to how helpful sponsoring Manchester United is to raising a company's profile. "We would hope the next arrangement would be at an even higher level than the previous one."


By ROBERT MILLWARD, AP Soccer Writer
Jan 19, 7:28 pm EST

It's not only AIG that's in crisis, Peter's - Man City itself is in crisis. Manchester City made an astounding bid to buy Kaka from AC Milan in a failed deal that could have damaged the sport's image at a time when many clubs and fans are in debt. Man City, one of the world's richest clubs after its August sale to an Abu Dhabi consortium, flexed its financial muscle with the reported $147 million bid for Kaka. Negotiations ended late Monday after the player decided to stay at the Italian club. "I'm worried that, as a game, it looks as if football has no worries and is immune from the world financial crisis," said Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the players' union in English football, the Professional Footballers' Association. "It's not a time for any industry to be spending in a cavalier fashion. There's a serious problem with the world and finance, perfectly illustrated by the banks that were doing well until suddenly there was cavalier spending. It's brought a lot of problems for ordinary people and we don't want that to happen in football."


Kaká

While Taylor acknowledges that such a star as Kaka should try and earn as much as he can, he says the gap between the haves and have-nots is widening. Milan also may be forced to reward Kaka's loyalty with higher wages and that might upset his teammates, among them Ronaldinho, Paolo Maldini and Andriy Shevchenko. Upset that Kaka might go, the Milan fans staged demonstrations, angry that he might leave for a club which has not won a major title since the 1976 League Cup, the third-tier competition in English soccer. City's last league title was in 1968, and 2 years later it won the European Cup Winners' Cup, a competition that no longer exists. The club has spent most of its history in the shadow of neighbor Manchester United, which has won 17 leagues titles, a record 11 FA Cups and three European Champions Cups.

Even the buyout by the Abu Dhabi United Group, owned by Sheik Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan, hasn't had an immediate effect. Although the club was able to break the British transfer record by hiring Robinho from Real Madrid for nearly $47 million — and he rewarded them with 11 league goals — City slumped into the relegation zone. The club is 11th in the standings, four points from last place and with little chance of reaching one of the top four Champions League spots. By contrast, Kaka helped Milan win the Champions League in 2005 and the team is currently third in Serie A, six points behind Inter Milan. At San Siro, he is a big fish in a big pool. At City, he would easily have been the biggest star, even with Robinho and fellow Brazilians Elano and Jo alongside. But how long will the Abu Dhabi United Group maintain its ownership of Man City if the club continues to go season after season without any trophies? Taylor doubts that overseas buyers are prepared for the long haul. "A lot of owners have got unlimited funds," Taylor said. ut they may well get disenchanted and we may find that the money they have put into the club may just be a loan that needs to be repaid. The club can't live with that."


Gigo, for God's sake, please stop posting stuff totally unrelated to the subject matter of this board!

just Trev

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #547 on: March 17, 2009, 08:24:23 PM »
the topic of this board is "1 year later...still glad u went to law school."

i suggest you follow your own advice.


rider

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #548 on: March 22, 2009, 06:16:48 PM »

Manchester United are confident they can negotiate an even more lucrative shirt sponsorship deal when their current arrangement with AIG ends next year.

By Rory Smith
Last Updated: 7:34PM GMT 21 Jan 2009


Parting company: AIG will not renew sponsorship deal with United

The US insurance giant, the recipient of an $85 billion government bail-out in September, revealed on Wednesday that they will not renew their contract when it expires after the 2009-10 season. United have already contacted dozens of blue chip companies, including the Indian finance and media giant Sahara, inviting them to tender an offer to replace AIG, who signed a £19 million annual tie-up in 2006. The club's chief executive, David Gill, admitted in November that he could envisage AIG not renewing the partnership because of the bail-out and United have been sure not to make the same mistake they did three years ago, when Vodafone announced they were pulling out with six months' notice.

Industry experts believe that, despite the global economic slump, United could hope to match Bayern Munich's arrangement with T-Mobile and Juventus's with Fiat, both thought to be worth around £22 million per season. They are expected to turn to the market of the Far East, as well as the Gulf and the Indian subcontinent, as they look to extend the United brand reach across the globe. Firms like Saudi Telecom, already a commercial partner of the club, are thought to have been targeted as United aim to put a deal in place as quickly as possible. Drew Barrand, of Sport Industry Group, said: "United are worth so much as a brand that the normal rules don't really apply. They hold all the aces in this situation. Their brand is so valuable that they will have no problems replacing AIG and could even receive compensation if they decide to end the sponsorship deal early. "They will look to the emerging markets where there is a strong attachment to the Premier League and plenty of companies who would love the prestige of being United's sponsors." A club spokesman said: "Even in the current climate companies have to advertise and AIG would testify to how helpful sponsoring Manchester United is to raising a company's profile. "We would hope the next arrangement would be at an even higher level than the previous one."


By ROBERT MILLWARD, AP Soccer Writer
Jan 19, 7:28 pm EST

It's not only AIG that's in crisis, Peter's - Man City itself is in crisis. Manchester City made an astounding bid to buy Kaka from AC Milan in a failed deal that could have damaged the sport's image at a time when many clubs and fans are in debt. Man City, one of the world's richest clubs after its August sale to an Abu Dhabi consortium, flexed its financial muscle with the reported $147 million bid for Kaka. Negotiations ended late Monday after the player decided to stay at the Italian club. "I'm worried that, as a game, it looks as if football has no worries and is immune from the world financial crisis," said Gordon Taylor, chief executive of the players' union in English football, the Professional Footballers' Association. "It's not a time for any industry to be spending in a cavalier fashion. There's a serious problem with the world and finance, perfectly illustrated by the banks that were doing well until suddenly there was cavalier spending. It's brought a lot of problems for ordinary people and we don't want that to happen in football."


Kaká

While Taylor acknowledges that such a star as Kaka should try and earn as much as he can, he says the gap between the haves and have-nots is widening. Milan also may be forced to reward Kaka's loyalty with higher wages and that might upset his teammates, among them Ronaldinho, Paolo Maldini and Andriy Shevchenko. Upset that Kaka might go, the Milan fans staged demonstrations, angry that he might leave for a club which has not won a major title since the 1976 League Cup, the third-tier competition in English soccer. City's last league title was in 1968, and 2 years later it won the European Cup Winners' Cup, a competition that no longer exists. The club has spent most of its history in the shadow of neighbor Manchester United, which has won 17 leagues titles, a record 11 FA Cups and three European Champions Cups.

Even the buyout by the Abu Dhabi United Group, owned by Sheik Mansour bin Zayed Al Nahyan, hasn't had an immediate effect. Although the club was able to break the British transfer record by hiring Robinho from Real Madrid for nearly $47 million — and he rewarded them with 11 league goals — City slumped into the relegation zone. The club is 11th in the standings, four points from last place and with little chance of reaching one of the top four Champions League spots. By contrast, Kaka helped Milan win the Champions League in 2005 and the team is currently third in Serie A, six points behind Inter Milan. At San Siro, he is a big fish in a big pool. At City, he would easily have been the biggest star, even with Robinho and fellow Brazilians Elano and Jo alongside. But how long will the Abu Dhabi United Group maintain its ownership of Man City if the club continues to go season after season without any trophies? Taylor doubts that overseas buyers are prepared for the long haul. "A lot of owners have got unlimited funds," Taylor said. ut they may well get disenchanted and we may find that the money they have put into the club may just be a loan that needs to be repaid. The club can't live with that."


Gigo, for God's sake, please stop posting stuff totally unrelated to the subject matter of this board!


Miliga - I think it's primarily the fault of administrators that do not delete it.

satori

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Paying the 'best and brightest' at AIG
« Reply #549 on: March 27, 2009, 05:30:21 PM »


Manchester United are confident they can negotiate an even more lucrative shirt sponsorship deal when their current arrangement with AIG ends next year.

By Rory Smith
Last Updated: 7:34PM GMT 21 Jan 2009


Parting company: AIG will not renew sponsorship deal with United

The US insurance giant, the recipient of an $85 billion government bail-out in September, revealed on Wednesday that they will not renew their contract when it expires after the 2009-10 season. United have already contacted dozens of blue chip companies, including the Indian finance and media giant Sahara, inviting them to tender an offer to replace AIG, who signed a £19 million annual tie-up in 2006. The club's chief executive, David Gill, admitted in November that he could envisage AIG not renewing the partnership because of the bail-out and United have been sure not to make the same mistake they did three years ago, when Vodafone announced they were pulling out with six months' notice.

Industry experts believe that, despite the global economic slump, United could hope to match Bayern Munich's arrangement with T-Mobile and Juventus's with Fiat, both thought to be worth around £22 million per season. They are expected to turn to the market of the Far East, as well as the Gulf and the Indian subcontinent, as they look to extend the United brand reach across the globe. Firms like Saudi Telecom, already a commercial partner of the club, are thought to have been targeted as United aim to put a deal in place as quickly as possible. Drew Barrand, of Sport Industry Group, said: "United are worth so much as a brand that the normal rules don't really apply. They hold all the aces in this situation. Their brand is so valuable that they will have no problems replacing AIG and could even receive compensation if they decide to end the sponsorship deal early. "They will look to the emerging markets where there is a strong attachment to the Premier League and plenty of companies who would love the prestige of being United's sponsors." A club spokesman said: "Even in the current climate companies have to advertise and AIG would testify to how helpful sponsoring Manchester United is to raising a company's profile. "We would hope the next arrangement would be at an even higher level than the previous one."


Maura Kelly

The US government's failure to block bonuses for the financial world's dumb and dumbest was crazy. But AIG's greed is worse

You don't have to be a financial expert to appreciate the irony in the letter that Edward Liddy, the government-appointed chairman of AIG, sent to Treasury secretary Timothy Geithner on Saturday. To explain why bonuses of $165m were needed to keep the top guys at the insurance giant, Liddy wrote: "I do not like these arrangements and find it distasteful and difficult to recommend to you that we must proceed with them." And yet, he said, "We cannot attract and retain the best and the brightest talent to lead and staff the AIG businesses – which are now being operated principally on behalf of American taxpayers – if employees believe their compensation is subject to continued and arbitrary adjustment by the US Treasury."

The best and the brightest, huh? We are talking about the dudes at AIG's financial products division, which helped effect the sub-prime mortgage crisis and to nearly level the global economy too. (Until February 2008, the division was headed up by Joseph Cassano, named by CNN as one of the "Ten Most Wanted Culprits" of the financial collapse.) And yet there are some of Cassano's remaining colleagues, receiving individual bonuses as large as $6.5m. AIG defended its action by saying the bonuses were promised last year, in contracts, and cannot be legally voided at this point. Lawyers at the Treasury department have agreed that the company would likely face lawsuits if it tried to refuse the bonuses. Fair enough, I suppose. But considering that AIG agreed to reduce its 2009 bonuses for the unit by 30% after being pressured by Liddy, I have to wonder if there isn't a lot more wiggle room. That dude who is getting $6.5m, for instance: surely he'd stay on for a measly $5m? Especially considering there can't be too many more jobs waiting for him out there in the financial world he helped to nearly destroy.

Moreover, if AIG had been allowed to fail, would it still have been legally obligated to pay these bonuses? And why didn't the government foresee that this might happen and insist on a bonus cap as a condition of AIG's bailout? Surely the company would have had to accept. That the government didn't take such a simple measure to prevent this kind of gross abuse seems wildly short-sighted, and unbelievably daft. But I don't think it's the government that's primarily to blame here. I do believe they bailed out AIG with the best intentions – knowing they'd have to face angry voters (and the unforgiving annals of history) if the economic disaster got even worse. It's those "best and brightest" over at AIG who are really to blame. It's a shame that those jerks don't have to answer to anything – not even (if their continued greed is any indication) their consciences. But what they're doing – cheating honest taxpayers out of their money – isn't all that far removed from what Bernie Madoff did. There is some consolation, however, in the words of President Obama, who called the AIG bonuses an "outrage" and instructed Geithner to "pursue every single legal avenue to block these bonuses and make the American taxpayers whole." We can always hope that happens. Too bad there's not much we can do if it doesn't.