Law School Discussion

Nine Years of Discussion
;

Author Topic: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?  (Read 128995 times)

cAMP

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #480 on: November 21, 2008, 03:21:10 PM »
Very simple, me-copy: the ear would have complained, were it an indispensable part of the body. Since it did not really stand for itself, but allowed the barber to do with it what he wanted, the ear was destined to be cut off.

teafairn

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #481 on: November 22, 2008, 02:43:03 PM »

Imagine yourself standing on a cliff where you not only fear falling off it, but also dread the possibility of throwing yourself off. In this experience that "nothing is holding me back," you sense the lack of anything that predetermines you to either throw yourself off or to stand still; you experience your own freedom.


Mon ami, you do understand how ridiculous you sound when you say that, don't you?

powderh2o

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #482 on: November 22, 2008, 03:44:42 PM »

[...] Internists can choose to focus their practice on general internal medicine, or may take additional training to "subspecialize" in one of 13 areas of internal medicine, generally organized by organ system. Cardiologists, for example, are doctors of internal medicine who subspecialize in diseases of the heart. [...] Subspecialty training (often called a "fellowship") usually requires an additional 1-3 years beyond the standard 3-year general internal medicine residency (residencies come after a student has graduated from medical school). [...]

  • Cardiology
  • Endocrinology
  • Gastroenterology
  • Hematology
  • Infectious diseases
  • Medical oncology
  • Nephrology
  • Pulmonology
  • Rheumatology


Jesus @ # ! * i n g Christ! This means you can become a cardiologist only when your 33 years old:

4 years college - you're 22 y.o.
4 years med school -- 26 y.o.
1 year social service -- 27 y.o.
3 years Internal Medicine residency -- 30 y.o.
3 years Cardiology subspecialy -- 33 y.o.

I get it now why only rich kids become doctors specializing in the most sought-after specialties! No middle class (let alone working-class) family can afford to support financially their children studying for 15 straight years!


this time, you obviously don't know what you are talking about! Are you even aware how much money do specialties like Cardio earn after they finish up their residencies? FYI I'm listing here some of the specialties (the first column the number of years it takes to become a specialist in that field and the second the median gross earnings per year reported)

Pulmonology (3+2) $206,000
Nehrology (3+2) $205,000
Hematology (3+2) $225,000
Gastroenterology (3+2) $271,000
Endocrinology (3+2) $173,000
Cardiology (3+3) $307,000
Rheumatology (3+3) $172,000
Allergy-Immunology (3+2) $194,000

To them paying up their student loans (even though they may be massive -- in the range of $300,000) is a joke -- in 5 years they'll be solvent. And we're not discussing Surgery-related specialties (and even some not related to surgery at all) -- their earning potential is simply unreal!

Surgery, General (5 years) $270,000
Neurosurgery (1 year General Surgery + 6-7 years) $401,000
Plastic surgery (5 years General Surgery + 2-3 years) $285,000
ORL (1-2 years + 3-4 years) $283,000
Cardiothoracic surgery $400,000
Retinal surgery $350,000
Ophthalmology $240,000
Dermatology (1+3) $220,000
Anesthesiology (1+3) $290,000
Radiology $300,000
Radiation Oncology $400,000
Orthopedic surgery $350,000
Obstetrics $257,000
Gynecology $202,000
Gynecology oncology $285,000

More modest earnings are in effect for

Neurology (1+3) $186,000
Psychiatry (1+3) $162,000 Children Psychiatry $187,000

Internal Medicine (3 years) earn around $150,000, Family Medicine (2 years) $150,000 and Emergency Medicine $200,000. Combined specialties are Internal Medicine-Pediatrics (4 years), Internal Medicine-Neurology/Psychiatry (5 years), Internal Medicine-Emergency Medicine (5 years). 

EXTREMELY COMPETITIVE
- Plastic surgery
- Dermatology
- Urology
- ORL
- Radiation Oncology

VERY COMPETITIVE
- General surgery
- Orthopedic surgery
- Neurosurgery
- Ophthalmology
- Anesthesiology

COMPETITIVE
- Physical Medicine
- Neurology
- OBGYN
- Pathology
- Emergency Medicine

LESS COMPETITIVE
- Radiology
- Psychiatry
- Pediatrics
- Internal Medicine
- Family Medicine


I just don't get why would one spend 2-3 more years in a fellowship doing scat work to specialize in Endocrinology  $173,000, Rheumatology  $172,000, Allergy-Immunology $194,000, when just completing the Internal Medicine resident he can earn $150,000.

connotation

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #483 on: November 24, 2008, 04:01:35 PM »

Politically speaking, Jordan was not such a good fella :) He joined the NSDAP (Nazi Party) in May 1933. The following November he joined the Sturmabteilung (SA) - the brown shirted storm troopers. He enlisted in the Luftwaffe in 1939 and worked for a while at the Peenemünde rocket center. During the war he attempted to interest the party in various schemes for advanced weapons, but these were ignored because he was considered "politically unreliable", probably because of his past associations with Jews (in particular: Courant, Born, and Wolfgang Pauli) and "Jewish Physics" (such a stigma also followed Werner Heisenberg for some time under the Nazis). It has been speculated that Jordan would have likely shared the 1954 Nobel Prize in Physics awarded to Max Born were it not for his membership in the Nazi party.

Wolfgang Pauli declared Jordan "rehabilitated" to the authorities some time after the war, allowing Jordan to regain academic employment after a 2-year period and then recover his full status as a tenured professor in 1953. Jordan went against Pauli's advice, and reentered politics after the period of denazification came to an end under the pressures of the Cold War. He secured election to the Bundestag standing with the conservative Christian Democrats. In 1957, Jordan came out in support for the arming of the Bundeswehr with tactical nuclear weapons by the Adenauer government, while the Göttinger 18 (which included Born, Heisenberg, and Pauli) authored the Göttinger Manifest in protest. This and other issues were to further strain his relationships with his former friends and colleagues.


While one surely not get so excited about Jordan's politics, people have clearly been applying double standards there. Because of reasons that seem partly comprehensible, Jordan was close to these far-right programs and he became politically organized. David Bohm was organized in completely analogous far-left, communist organizations. Nevertheless, Jordan is usually treated as trash while Bohm is routinely celebrated as a saint hero. And by the way, Jordan was much better a physicist than Bohm. Because Nazism and communism were two comparably big evils - and Stalin actually killed more people than Hitler - this asymmetry in the treatment of these two guys is a worrisome testimony of the pro-communist bias in the Academia. A membership in NSDAP or SA was not an "ultimately selective" crime. By 1945, there were 8.5 million NSDAP members so it should not be shocking that something like 10% of German physicists would be members, too. In 1934, there were 3 million members of SA. The political bias in science - and even in Nobel prizes - is wrong in all directions. I guess Jordan will remain an "unsung hero" of quantum mechanics for quite some time if not forever.


Oh please, tandem2, don't try to justify him! No matter how good of a physicist he may have been, he supported the Nazis and that's something that just won't do! Nazis were animals, and in fact, animal would be too kind and non-judgmental a label. I just cannot imagine a scientist -- who's supposed to strive towards high levels of excellence -- to support such an anti-intellectual organization as the Nazi Party!

www.pptpalooza.net/PPTs/EHAP/EHAPStudentProjects/Anti-IntellInNaziGermany-DavidS.ppt
Time is an illusion.

m e t a n o i a

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #484 on: November 24, 2008, 10:04:40 PM »

[...] It is practically impossible to get residency spots in the highly competitive specialties like Radiology, Orthopedics and Dermatology being an IMG, US or non-US one. You end up as a general family practice physician or internal medicine resident, specialties which pay much less than the highly sought-after specialties such as Surgery, Anesthesiology, Obstetrics/gynecology, etc.

Equally important, almost all training slots filled by IMGs are in teaching hospitals in large urban areas that have traditionally served large numbers of minorities, uninsured, and low-income patients. It is a bit easier for US-IMGs compared to non-US IMGs. The latter, for example, who usually are on J-1 Visas (with 80% of these physicians actually staying in the US) are compelled to practice in designated rural or inner city physician shortage areas in order to have the "2-year return" requirement for J-1 visa waived. Both the initial training location and the subsequent service locations of IMGs frequently put them in minority communities where other doctors are scarce. In essence IMGs provide primary care to poor and underserved populations, with many inner-city hospitals in the U.S. relying almost exclusively on IMGs to provide services to America's poor.


Honey, I've been a dirty stinky Indian all my life and I can tell ya it's not like that ... several friends of mine (poor, stinky Indian b i t c h e s, if you like!) have been able to get some pretty damn good residencies in the US.

A very dear friend of mine just recently began Rheumatology fellowship at a quite good hospital after having finished the 3-year Internal Medicine residency. It'll take 3 years for the fellowship to be completed and my friend is looking at some $200,000 per annum - not bad at all for someone who lived all the time in a city like Calcutta or Bombay! :)


My boyfriend is a physician and he says some programs don't even require USCE (US Clinical Experience), but in order to make yourself a more desirable applicant you should get some. The experience should be as long as possible with hands-on work. It's VERY important that you get good LORs (letters of recommendation) from US physicians. Ideally, you should try for at least 1month per attachments. I've come across programs which require IMG applicants to have 12 months of USCE.

As for how to get USCE, you have to be creative. The most straight forward way is to get busy on the phone and email and contact all the programs/hospitals listed on FRIEDA and ask them if you can spend a couple of months with them. Most hospitals have a Continuing/Graduate Medical Education (CME or GME) department who will deal with this. VA hospital are apparently more easy to get placements at. If you're still a medical student then you are at an advantage as you can still apply for an externship which will allow you to obtain Hands-on USCE which is like GOLD! However, if you leave it until you graduate then it becomes really (REALLY) difficult to get an externship and most hospitals will only offer Observerships which technically do not allow hands-on work which will mean that your LOR from here probably won't be able to comment on your clinical skills, and consequently will not help you much in applications. A research job is probably best but most places are going to want a several month or year commitment.
The Bermuda Triangle got tired of warm weather. It moved to Alaska. Now Santa Claus is missing.

yourlocalsuperhero

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 67
    • View Profile
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #485 on: November 25, 2008, 02:22:38 PM »
Yes and no.

Yes, because of several tremendous developments in my life that, while largely incidental to my law school career, may not have happened otherwise.

Yes, because I've learned valuable things about the law and legal instruction and practice; honed writing, research and critical thinking skills; and am generally a more competent member of society.  (Perhaps it's needless to say that all of these mostly intellectual developments should be available to all citizens, outside of law school.)

No, because legal instruction stinks, past and present.  No, because legal practice stinks, past and present, and I want no part in it.    No, because there are more valuable things to do for one's self and one's community.  No, because of the limited options that graduate face due to crazy amounts of debt. 
 
Why is everyone so quiet?  Is this the democracy you wanted? (Subcomandante Marcos)

no634

  • Sr. Citizen
  • ****
  • Posts: 173
    • View Profile
    • No 634
Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #486 on: November 25, 2008, 02:35:18 PM »
so, lots of people have finished 1L now.  hey, lots of people are finishing 2L and 3L now.  so the question to everyone is, are you still glad you decided to go to law school? 

there are countless things you could have been doing this last 1,2, or 3 years so are you happy you decided to spend the time at your respective law school?  also are you happy knowing that you've spent this recent time preparing for a career in law? 




Yes, I love my school and the work. It’s been a lot of fun!

koan

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Residency "MATCH Formula" GUIDE for IMGs
« Reply #487 on: November 25, 2008, 04:01:53 PM »

Honey, I've been a dirty stinky Indian all my life and I can tell ya it's not like that ... several friends of mine (poor, stinky Indian b i t c h e s, if you like!) have been able to get some pretty damn good residencies in the US.

A very dear friend of mine just recently began Rheumatology fellowship at a quite good hospital after having finished the 3-year Internal Medicine residency. It'll take 3 years for the fellowship to be completed and my friend is looking at some $200,000 per annum - not bad at all for someone who lived all the time in a city like Calcutta or Bombay! :)


My boyfriend is a physician and he says some programs don't even require USCE (US Clinical Experience), but in order to make yourself a more desirable applicant you should get some. The experience should be as long as possible with hands-on work. It's VERY important that you get good LORs (letters of recommendation) from US physicians. Ideally, you should try for at least 1month per attachments. I've come across programs which require IMG applicants to have 12 months of USCE.

As for how to get USCE, you have to be creative. The most straight forward way is to get busy on the phone and email and contact all the programs/hospitals listed on FRIEDA and ask them if you can spend a couple of months with them. Most hospitals have a Continuing/Graduate Medical Education (CME or GME) department who will deal with this. VA hospital are apparently more easy to get placements at. If you're still a medical student then you are at an advantage as you can still apply for an externship which will allow you to obtain Hands-on USCE which is like GOLD! However, if you leave it until you graduate then it becomes really (REALLY) difficult to get an externship and most hospitals will only offer Observerships which technically do not allow hands-on work which will mean that your LOR from here probably won't be able to comment on your clinical skills, and consequently will not help you much in applications. A research job is probably best but most places are going to want a several month or year commitment.


Most Program directors will score your ERAS application based on the following "33 Score Formula":

1. USMLE Score from Score 1---> 5 (ECFMG Transcripts)
5 points for 220+ 1st attempt
4 points for 200+ 1st attempt
3 points for Pass 1st attempt
2 points for Pass 2nd attempt
1 points for Pass 3+ attempts

Step 1 = 1-5
Step 2CK = 1-5
Step 2CS = 1-3

MAX Score = 13 and MIN Score = 3


2. Years After Graduation: Score 1 to 5 (MD Diploma)

5 points for recent graduate
Every year after - deduct a point, if 5+ years after your MD 1 point

Max = 5 points, Min= 1 point


3. Letter of Recommendations & Rotations (LORs)

5 points = Rotations DONE in ACGME (US applicants), Strong LOR
3 Points = Rotations in ACGME, Average LOR
1 Point = NON ACGME Rotations, LOR Not Rated (e.g., translated)


4. Medical School's Performance (Transcripts), Dean's Letter

5 points: Strong Performance, Strong Dean's Letter
3 Points: Average performance / Dean's Letter
1 Point: Poor Performance / Passing


5. Personal Statement (PS)

5 = Strong PS
3 = Average
1 = Poor


Strong Candidate score over 30 !! That should be your ultimate GOAL!!

Chevalier

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
    • View Profile
Re: Residency "MATCH Formula" GUIDE for IMGs
« Reply #488 on: November 25, 2008, 10:38:07 PM »

1. USMLE Score from Score 1---> 5 (ECFMG Transcripts)

5 points for 220+ 1st attempt
4 points for 200+ 1st attempt
3 points for Pass 1st attempt
2 points for Pass 2nd attempt
1 points for Pass 3+ attempts

Step 1 = 1-5
Step 2CK = 1-5
Step 2CS = 1-3

MAX Score = 13 and MIN Score = 3


Indeed USMLEs are the most important criterion: So, Keep in mind:

  • USMLE scores really do count, especially for Internal Medicine. Don't listen to people that say just pass and you'll be fine.
  • Passing is better than failing, and passing on first attempt matters to many programs;

HOWEVER, it's even better for you to focus a lot on getting a good score on the test, because many programs take scores of 80-85 and above. Later attempts sometimes are not even accepted.  Thus you really only get one chance to have an easy time getting residency later on down the road. So you may want to research hospitals you have in mind before you take step 1 to get a feel for the reality of what your test means and also to see what kind of score you need to achieve to get there and how hard you need to  study (but in the end its so competitive you just need to get as high score as possible nonetheless)

SO, study hard for the USMLE, especially step 1 if you want to get into certain good programs. Also, try to stay on schedule so that you can get things in time for the MATCH or the SCRAMBLE which is straight after the MATCH. This is the one opportunity you have to get into a good program of your choice... Later on there will be openings, but you wont have much of a choice at that point and there is still competition because there are still many in your shoes.  So get high scores and all qualifications you could possibly need before you Match, so that you can have an easy time during that time and avoid a lot of heartache.

daires

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 5
    • View Profile
Residency Programs with No Score Requirements
« Reply #489 on: November 26, 2008, 03:44:40 PM »

Indeed USMLEs are the most important criterion: So, Keep in mind:

  • USMLE scores really do count, especially for Internal Medicine. Don't listen to people that say just pass and you'll be fine.
  • Passing is better than failing, and passing on first attempt matters to many programs;

HOWEVER, it's even better for you to focus a lot on getting a good score on the test, because many programs take scores of 80-85 and above. Later attempts sometimes are not even accepted.  Thus you really only get one chance to have an easy time getting residency later on down the road. So you may want to research hospitals you have in mind before you take step 1 to get a feel for the reality of what your test means and also to see what kind of score you need to achieve to get there and how hard you need to  study (but in the end it's so competitive you just need to get as high score as possible nonetheless)


Don't sweat the USMLEs that much. In any event, there are programs out there that don't have score requirements:

Residency Programs with No Score Requirements

Internal Medicine

New York

NYU Downtown Hospital
St. Barnabas Hospital
NYMC/St. Vincents Hospital
Univ of Rochester program
Staten Island Univ. Hospital program
North Shore Univ. Hospital @ Forest Hills
Harlem Hospital Center
Beth Israel Med. Ctr/Albert Einstein COM
Elmhurst Hospital Ctr/Mt. Sinai SOM
SUNY Health Science Ctr @ Brooklyn

Michigan

Kalamazoo Ctr for Medical Studies/MSU program
Henry Ford
William Beaumont Hospital program

Arizona

Univ. of Arizona

California

Scripps Clinic/Green hospital
St. Mary's Medical Center

Missouri

St. John's Mercy Med. Ctr
Univ. of Missouri-Columbia

Ohio

Meridia Huron
Univ. Hospital/Univ. of Cincinnati COM
Forum Health/Western Reserve Care System
Akron General Hospital

Pennsylvannia

Mercy Catholic Med. Ctr
Allegheny Gen Hospital
Reading Hospital
Lehigh Valley Hospital/PSU program
MCP Hahneman Univ program
Thomas Jefferson Univ program
Univ. of Penn (Philly program)
Milton S Hershey Med Ctr./PSU program
Albert Einstein Med Ctr
Crozer-Chester Med. Ctr
UPMC Mckeesport Hospital

Tennessee

Univ. of Tennessee program

Delaware

Christiana Care Health Services program
Florida- Univ of Florida (Gainesville)

Illinois

Loyola Univ.
Univ of Illinois (Peoria)
Resurrection Health Care
Cook County Hospital

Kansas

Univ of Kansas med Ctr program @ Kansas city

Iowa

Univ. of Iowa Hospitals & Clinics program

Maryland

Good Samaritan Hospital of Maryland program
Univ of Maryland program
Franklin Square Hospital

Massachussets

St. Elizabeth's Med Ctr of Boston
Mt. Auburn Hospital program
Metrowest Med Ctr program
Salem Hospital
Cambridge Hospital/Cambridge Health Alliance

New Hampshire

Hitchcock Med Ctr

Rhode Island

Roger Williams

Texas

Baylor COM @ Houston
Univ of Texas Health Alliance Ctr. @ San Antonio

Virginia

East Virginia Medical School

Wash DC

Washington Hospital Ctr program
DC General Hospital

Others

Tuft's University


Family Medicine programs:

California

Ventura County Medical Center

Colorado

North Colorado Medical Center
St. Mary Corwin Regional Medical Center

Florida

St. Vincents Medical Center

Indiana

St. Marys Med. Ctr

Maryland

Franklin Sq. Hospital Ctr

Michigan

Kalamazoo Ctr. for Med. Studies/MSU
St. John Hospital & Med. Ctr
Genesys Regional Med. Ctr

New Jersey

JFK Medical Center

New York

SUNY HSC @ Brooklyn
Univ of Rochester/Highland Hospit of Rochester
Bronx Lebanon Hospital

Pennsylvania
 
Abington Memorial Hospital
Mckeesport Hospt/UPMC
Univ. of Pitt Med. Ctr/St Margaret program
Altoona Fam Practice program
Univ. of Penn program at Philly

Washington

Group Health Cooperative of Puget SOund

Virginia

Riverside Regional Med. Ctr

Louisiana

LSU/EA Conway Med Ctr @ Monroe program
East Jefferson General Hospital

Ohio

Mercy Health Partners

Iowa

Cedar Rapids Med Education Foundation

South Carolina

Medical Univ of South Carolina

Rhode Island

Brown Univ

Texas

Baylor COM
San Jacinto Methodist Fam practice program


Transitional year

Florida

Mayo Clinic

Illinois

Resurrection Health Care

Pennsylvania

Conemaugh Mem. Medical Ctr/Temple Univ
Reading Hospital
St. Francis Med. Ctr

Michigan

Hurley Med Ctr

 
Surgery

Illinois

Lutheran General Hospital

New Jersey

St. Francis Hospital

Maryland

St. Agnes Healthcare
Johns Hopkins University

California

Almeda County Medical Center

New York

Stamford Hospital, Columbia University
Mount Sinai School of Medicine

Georgia

Medical College of Georgia

Minnesota

Mayo Clinic, Rochester

Others

Baylor University Medical Center
Thomas Jefferson University
McGaw Med Center of Northwestern University
Hennepin County Med Center
Mayo Clinic Scottsdale
Indiana University School of Medicine
Univ of Kansas Med Center (Cornell)
North Oakland Medical Center
Remember your lovers
Remember when it's your turn to suffer
There's no reason for you not to cry
With all the memories you carry on by