Law School Discussion

1 year later....still glad u went to law school?

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #410 on: July 28, 2008, 09:49:27 AM »

To all people posting here: medicine is a very hard field to work in. You even risk your own health sometimes (surgeons are constantly in danger of contracting deadly diseases via blood) not to mention the extremely long hours many doctors put. I had the opportunity to go about it some years back and I let go .. it's just not worth it when you think about the kind of people you'd be dealing with ... Doctors witness death and suffering on a daily basis and their work takes a toll on their private lives. Shift work is often necessary. Junior doctors frequently work weekends, holidays, and nights.

I'm pretty sure Tacoma is not talking about doctors here..

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #411 on: July 30, 2008, 10:35:29 AM »
You appear to be pretty sure about quite a few things, thegayismine ..

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #412 on: July 31, 2008, 12:06:42 PM »

[...] it should not be forgotten that all doctors have less power over life and death than we believe and they like us to think.

The trouble with medicine in the modern Western world is that there is so little doctors can do. Miracle cures are as rare today as in biblical times. Most conditions presented to GPs in their surgeries are long-term, chronic complaints for which modern medicine offers no cure and not much in the way of treatment. Talk to any GP and you will hear a tale of frustration at the prospect of another packed surgery with patients who cannot be helped except with liberal doses of TLC (tender loving care), backed perhaps by a harmless prescription to make them feel their complaint is a genuine problem. It is difficult for doctors. They enter the profession with high expectations of healing the sick and curing disease, and they discover that reality is crueller. The major causes of ill health - diseases such as diphtheria, typhoid and polio - have long since been defeated by improved living conditions, vaccination and antibiotics. For modern ailments - failing hearts, stiffened joints, old age - there is little to offer.


Doctors are taught that while death is the enemy, it is also natural and inevitable, and not necessarily evil per se. Death quite literally can't be stopped, so the goal instead is to minimize suffering and the amount of "needless" or "premature" death. [...]

Interesting, sighmere! I'd be interested to read more on!

Foreign Doctors in the U.S: Is This Fair?
« Reply #413 on: August 02, 2008, 11:58:45 AM »

Honey, I've been a dirty stinky Indian all my life and I can tell ya it's not like that ... several friends of mine (poor, stinky Indian b i t c h e s, if you like!) have been able to get some pretty damn good residencies in the US.

A very dear friend of mine just recently began Rheumatology fellowship at a quite good hospital after having finished the 3-year Internal Medicine residency. It'll take 3 years for the fellowship to be completed and my friend is looking at some $200,000 per annum - not bad at all for someone who lived all the time in a city like Calcutta or Bombay! :)

July 03, 2008 18:35 IST

Professionals and graduates from elite British universities are making a beeline for India, thanks to its booming economy, closer trade relations between the two countries and numerous job opportunities there. Thousands of people face the prospect of losing their jobs due to the current credit crunch and a downturn in the British economy. A steep rise in the cost of living in recent months has further prompted professionals to look beyond borders. Fresh MBA graduates from the University of Oxford's Said Business School have taken the initiative to organise a recruitment fair in Mumbai on July 30 and 31. They have already received an enthusiastic response from potential recruiters. Apart from Britons and British-Asians seeking employment abroad, professionals leaving the country inlcude many among the recently arrived highly skilled migrants from Poland, Nigeria and Australia. The Institute of Public Policy Research says that they may have better job prospects back home, where they can also avoid Britains spiralling cost of living. Private hospitals in India often recruit doctors working in the National Health Service. These include Indian doctors who came to the UK some years ago and are now choosing to return home for better working conditions.

A recent survey revealed that British graduates were prepared to fill nearly 200,000 jobs in Indian call centres by 2009. Several Indian and British call centres recruit British graduates from regions that have large Asian population. Their accent helps them interact with British customers while working in call centres in India. For British Asians, working in Indian call centres has a double attraction  they get a job that helps them connect with their roots. A Scottish history graduate recently made news by quitting his job in Sky Television with an annual salary of 21,000 pounds to work in an Indian call centre. Officials at Oxfords Sad Business School told PTI that the recruitment event in Mumbai will offer Indian recruiters a unique opportunity to meet outstanding postgraduate student talent under one roof. One of the organisers, MBA student Tarun Dhillon, who has a background in Aerospace and Defence, said, "With the advent of India as a global business leader, many of the bright minds from Oxford look forward to taking on the business challenges in the booming Indian economy and to be part of India's success story."

"I am delighted with the level of interest from the class and we hope to engage with a range of companies in a variety of sectors. We hope this inaugural event will become an annual fixture in the School's recruitment calendar," Dhillon said. Simon Tankard, Head of Careers at the business school, said, "It is a fantastic opportunity for recruiters in India to get to know our students and for the students to learn about the organisations that interest them." "Many of our students are looking to high-flying international careers and we are delighted to support this student-led initiative that brings together the collective insight and connections of the organising group with the services and connections of the Business School." Another MBA student Deepti Gali said, "The buoyancy in the Indian economy is evident in the number of outbound cross border deals and the amount of private equity money flowing in." "I am sure working in India would provide a perfect platform from which to launch my post-MBA career."

Each year, developing nations spend $500 million to educate health care workers who leave to work in North America, Western Europe and South Asia. In other words, as the most recent issue of the JAMA puts it: "developing nations are subsidizing healthcare in wealthier nations." And we are not talking about a small clutch of physicians: close to 25% of U.S. doctors are foreign-born. According to JAMA, "These unchecked flows of health workers leave regions with the greatest health care needs the fewest workers...37% of the world's health care workers live in the Americas, predominantly in the United States and Canada, yet these countries carry only 10% of the global disease burden. In contrast, Africa is home to only 3% of the world’s healthcare workers, yet it has 24% of the global burden of disease."

Yet as the AMA points out, we don't have enough home-grown physicians to serve our needs here. Some 35 million Americans live in areas where there are not enough doctors. Nationwide, primary care doctors are in short supply, in large part because they are paid so much less than specialists. Medical students who know that they are going to be graduating with $100,000 in loans report that that they just can't afford to become internists or family doctors. Moreover, according to the Kaiser Family Foundation "the nationwide physician shortage is affecting rural and inner-city residents the most," and following 9/11, "restrictions put in place on foreign doctors who want to practice in the U.S." have made the situation worse. 13 years ago, the federal government began issuing J-1 visa waivers which allow foreign physicians to work in rural areas like Appalachia and the Mississippi Delta for 3-5 years and then seek permanent residency. But since, 2001, the government has hiked fees for the waivers, made tests that foreign doctors must take harder, and tightened rules determining what counts as an "underserved area." According to the GAO, the number of physicians in training with J-1 visa waivers declined by nearly half over the last 10 years, from 11,600 in the 1996-1997 academic year to fewer than 6,200 in the 2004-2005 academic year. In addition, in 2003 HHS took control of a Department of Agriculture foreign doctor program and has approved only 61 J-1 waivers since that time, according to the AP/Inquirer. The visa program is set to expire in 2008.

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #414 on: August 02, 2008, 11:59:38 AM »
We sorely need those doctors, advocates of the program say. Moreover, those who support opening our doors to more foreign physicians contend that by welcoming these doctors to our shores we might begin to curb runaway health care inflation. TPM Cafe contributor Dean Baker has argued, on more than occasion, that "increased competition from foreign professionals could lead to dramatic reductions in the salaries of workers in the highly paid professions." In a 2003 study Baker, who is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research, estimates that by adding roughly 100,000 physicians to our current pool of about 760,000, we could pull doctors' salaries down from an average of $203,000 to somewhere between $74,000 and $126,000. For the average middle-class American family of four he reckons that would lead to savings of $2,200 to $3,700 per year. What he ignores is that, by and large, foreign doctors who work in the U.S. practice in a separate market. Indeed, an analysis of where these doctors work shows they are likely to be found in geographic areas where the physician-patient ratio is low and the rate of infant mortalities is high. Typically, they are found in rural areas where their visas have sent them and in inner cities where they treat the Medicaid patients that many American doctors refuse to see because Medicaid reimbursements are so very low. The fees Medicaid pays vary state by state, but Princeton health economist Uwe Reinhardt gives an example of just how parsimonious the government can be: "federal and state legislators may be willing to pay pediatricians $10 to see a poor child covered by Medicaid, but to pay the same pediatrician $50 or more to see these legislators’ own children in the commercial corner of the market."

As we noted recently on The Century Foundation's healthcare blog, Health Beat, even when foreign and American doctors practice in the same area, "medical apartheid" is the rule. In New York City, for example, well-insured white patients see one set of doctors, while minority and poor patients see another group, many of them foreign-born. Typically those doctors charge less (or are paid less by their employers.) In the late 1990s, when it seemed we had a surplus of physicians in this country, the AMA fretted that doctors emigrating from other countries might pull down physicians' salaries. Not to worry. While Medicare has put a brake on some doctors' incomes in recent years, foreign doctors have had little effect. What they charge low-income patients ultimately has no influence on what the market will bear at the high end—and that's the end that feeds health care inflation. Moreover, even if a flotilla of foreign docs could bring down medical fees -- is it fair to poach physicians from countries where tens of thousands of children are dying of treatable conditions? To put it as bluntly as possible, how many children are we willing to let die each year so that the average middle-class American family can save $2,000 to $3,700? Baker recognizes and addresses the ethical problem. His solution is to pay for the doctors we are taking: "it would be reasonable to expect that developing countries would want to recoup the costs of educating professionals who have left the country," he writes, "and it would be reasonable to expect that a rich nation like the United States would be willing to share some of the economic gains that it receives as a result of an increased supply of highly educated workers from poor nations."

But money won't replace able-bodied phsyicians. And in developing countries there are a very limited number of individuals who have had the necessary educational opportunities as children to prepare them to study medicine as young adults. Keep in mind that, in Africa, AIDS has wiped out tens of thousands of children and young adults who might have become health care workers. Moreover, as Laurie Garrett pointed out in Foreign Affairs earlier this year, thanks in part to Bill and Melinda Gates and Warren Buffett, "there are now are now billions of dollars being made available for health spending" in the developing world. "But much more than money is required," Garrett observes. "Decades of neglect have rendered local hospitals, clinics, laboratories, medical schools, and health talent dangerously deficient, much of the cash now flooding the field is leaking away without result. "The fact that the world is now short well over 4 million health-care workers s all too often ignored" she continues. "As the populations of the developed countries are aging and coming to require ever more medical attention, they are sucking away local health talent from developing countries." Garrett offers stark evidence of the "brain drain." For example, 604 out of 871 medical officers trained in Ghana between 1993 and 2002 now practice overseas. Zimbabwe trained 1,200 doctors during the 1990s, but only 360 remain in the country today. She also discusses how other developed countries are arranging short-term exchanges of physicians that could help train doctors from developing countries. And she describes a World Health Organization program designed to "eliminate recruitment of physicians in poor countries without the full approval of host governments... No such code exists in the United States," she adds, "but it should."

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #415 on: August 05, 2008, 08:34:57 PM »

You appear to be pretty sure about quite a few things, thegayismine ..

Too many bold posts, I'd say.. Your avatar, schel, illustrates best the concept of "moderation" that some "members" of this board are better off applying...


Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #416 on: August 06, 2008, 02:56:39 AM »
HAHAHA follow me, I know what ya mean ;)

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #417 on: August 06, 2008, 12:15:11 PM »
Completing a residency is a hard process that requires time and committment. You just can not allow such a great investment in your life slide away by not being 100% committed to studying for the exams and completing the residency. You've to pass the clearance process with the State board as well (not having been a drug addict in the past, not having been conducted for any drug-related crime, for the DEA licence). It requires much more committment than the law school process.

FBI: Hospital Used Homeless As 'Human Pawns'
« Reply #418 on: August 07, 2008, 07:57:48 PM »
Don't get me started with doctors and their morals. Take a look here:

FBI: Hospital Used Homeless As 'Human Pawns'
Lawsuit alleges homeless were recruited to fake illnesses; CEO subject of 21-count indictment


LOS ANGELES -- On a Sunday afternoon 2 years ago, 5 homeless people being dropped off on Los Angeles' Skid Row by an ambulance caught the attention of police officers. The officers videotaped what they thought was a case of hospitals dumping patients in a section of the city where few would notice or care. But as investigators began to unravel the incident, they say they found something far different: A massive scheme to defraud taxpayer-funded health-care programs of millions of dollars by recruiting homeless patients for unnecessary medical services. The elaborate enterprise churned thousands of indigents through hospitals over the past four years and billed Medicare and Medi-Cal for costly and unjustified medical procedures, federal, state and local investigators alleged Wednesday. The alleged conspiracy "ranged from street-level operatives to the chief executive of a hospital," said U.S. Attorney Thomas O'Brien.

Following raids on three hospitals in Los Angeles and Orange counties, one hospital chief executive was charged criminally, and executives at two other facilities were accused of fraudulent business practices in a related civil lawsuit filed by Los Angeles City Attorney Rocky Delgadillo. Some homeless patients were given tests or treatments that were potentially harmful, authorities said. The "depravity" of the alleged scheme startled authorities, said Salvador Hernandez, assistant director in charge of the FBI's Los Angeles office. "The defendants are accused of preying on the homeless and exploiting their desperate conditions for personal gain," he said. Arrested on federal charges were Dr. Rudra Sabaratnam, an owner and the chief executive of City of Angels hospital, and Estill Mitts, an alleged patient recruiter who operated a storefront facility called the Assessment Center in the heart of Skid Row. A 21-count grand jury indictment accuses the pair of health care fraud and receiving illegal kickbacks.

Mitts, who was released Wednesday afternoon on $25,000 bail and confined to his home, is also charged with money laundering and income tax evasion. Sabaratnam was held in custody until another hearing today. In addition to City of Angels hospital, agents earlier Wednesday swarmed Los Angeles Metropolitan Medical Center and Tustin Hospital and Medical Center. Pacific Health Corp., which operates both hospitals, said in a statement that it has cooperated with authorities and believes it will be cleared of any illegal conduct. Officials said the investigation is continuing and additional defendants are expected to be charged. The total amount of the fraud was still being tallied, but prosecutors said that Mitts' operation could have cost the government $11 million in improper payments and that City of Angels collected $5 million in federal health care reimbursements. Delgadillo sued the three hospitals, their operators and several others. The hospitals used unfair business practices to fill empty beds in a bid to boost their finances, the suit says. The privately owned medical centers allegedly worked with patient recruiting operations on Skid Row that plucked homeless people from the streets and delivered them with fake medical diagnoses to the hospitals.

According to court filings, "runners" or "stringers" on Skid Row looked for homeless recruits. Prospects were offered small sums of money, typically $20 or $30, to be paid upon completion of a hospital stay of one to three days. The street recruiter typically received $40 for each homeless recruit with Medicare eligibility and $20 for each recruit with Medi-Cal benefits, according to the city attorney. A person familiar with the workings of the alleged scheme told the Los Angeles Times last year that employees at the Assessment Center would recruit people on Skid Row to reach out to potential patients, who may or may not have needed medical treatment. The recruiters were paid between $25 and $200 a day; some patients were reimbursed for their time with money, food or a pack of cigarettes -- what was called an "incentive," according to the source, who spoke on the condition that he not be named. The source said that it didn't matter whether the patient was using drugs, or whether they had underlying psychiatric issues. Delgadillo said that patients received treatment for conditions such as dehydration, yeast infection and a cardiopulmonary disorder that "didn't exist."

One patient, referred to in the city attorney's lawsuit as "Recruit X," suffered from a mental disorder and was sent by the Assessment Center to all three of the medical centers. At one of the hospitals, the lawsuit says, the patient was given a nitroglycerin patch for a nonexistent cardiopulmonary condition, which caused a precipitous drop in her blood pressure. The treatment, said Delgadillo "put her in peril." Wednesday's crackdown sends a message that "those who would seek to defraud our health care system, and those who would callously exploit mentally impaired and drug addicted homeless men and women to turn a profit will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law," Delgadillo said. In addition to Mitts and Sabaratnam, the city attorney's civil lawsuit names Pacific Health Corp.; the corporation that operates Los Angeles Metropolitan Medical Center; its chief executive, John Fenton, and admitting physician Frederick Rundall; Tustin Hospital and Medical Center; its chief executive, Daniel Davis, Chief Financial Officer Vincent Rubio and admitting physicians Kenneth Thaler and Al-Reza Tajik. Also named are City of Angels Medical Center and Robert Borseau, an owner/officer with the company that operates the hospital. Most of the defendants could not be reached for comment. The Tustin hospital was allegedly guaranteed 40 to 50 patients a month while City of Angels got 25 to 30 patients month. Metropolitan Medical Center received patients whenever beds were available, according to the suit. City attorneys allege the admitting doctors -- Rundall, Thaler and Tajik -- did not see their patients until shortly before their discharge. City attorneys allege that for patient referrals, Mitts' group was paid $20,000 per month each from Metropolitan Medical Center and Tustin, while City of Angels paid between $400 to $1,000 a week to the recruiting group. The suit also alleges that the Tustin hospital's chief financial officer personally received a $3,500-a-month kickback from Mitts' group to ensure that Tustin continued to take homeless patients from the Skid Row center.

Re: FBI: Hospital Used Homeless As 'Human Pawns'
« Reply #419 on: August 08, 2008, 12:47:24 AM »
Don't get me started with doctors and their morals. Take a look here:

FBI: Hospital Used Homeless As 'Human Pawns'
Lawsuit alleges homeless were recruited to fake illnesses; CEO subject of 21-count indictment

You've got to be kidding me, just sex - you are dissapointed with doctors because they may have used as pawns homeless people! Doctors and medical professionals are absolutely not champions in this field - how about intelligence agencies having conducted non-consensual human experiments (e.g., trauma-based mind control, etc).