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Author Topic: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?  (Read 129328 times)

Morgan

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #260 on: May 14, 2007, 04:57:39 AM »

What this means is that students completing their studies in such schools might be at a disadvantage when competing for strong residencies. However, the USMLE scores are an important determinant of the residency match, so strong USMLE scores make up for a lot and can be a great equalizer. Another disadvantage is that often the clinical rotations are done in US medical schools. [...]


Even top USMLE scores (such as 240-250) won't really compensate for the fact that you completed your medical studies at a non-US school (even if your med school GPA was high). It is practically impossible to get residency spots in the highly competitive specialties like Radiology, Orthopedics and Dermatology being an IMG, US or non-US one. You end up as a general family practice physician or internal medicine resident, specialties which pay much less than the highly sought-after specialties such as Surgery, Anesthesiology, Obstetrics/gynecology, etc.

Equally important, almost all training slots filled by IMGs are in teaching hospitals in large urban areas that have traditionally served large numbers of minorities, uninsured, and low-income patients. It is a bit easier for US-IMGs compared to non-US IMGs. The latter, for example, who usually are on J-1 Visas (with 80% of these physicians actually staying in the US) are compelled to practice in designated rural or inner city physician shortage areas in order to have the "2-year return" requirement for J-1 visa waived. Both the initial training location and the subsequent service locations of IMGs frequently put them in minority communities where other doctors are scarce. In essence IMGs provide primary care to poor and underserved populations, with many inner-city hospitals in the U.S. relying almost exclusively on IMGs to provide services to America's poor.

 

j-p

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #261 on: May 14, 2007, 05:48:28 AM »

[...] You end up as a general family practice physician or internal medicine resident, specialties which pay much less than the highly sought-after specialties such as Surgery, Anesthesiology, Obstetrics/gynecology, etc.

Equally important, almost all training slots filled by IMGs are in teaching hospitals in large urban areas that have traditionally served large numbers of minorities, uninsured, and low-income patients. It is a bit easier for US-IMGs compared to non-US IMGs. The latter, for example, who usually are on J-1 Visas (with 80% of these physicians actually staying in the US) are compelled to practice in designated rural or inner city physician shortage areas in order to have the "2-year return" requirement for J-1 visa waived. [...]


It is true that the average national annual salaries for Internal Medicine is some $160K and $145 for Family Practice as opposed to $340K for Cardiology and $350K for Radiology -- after all, this is the reason why US med grads with huge student loans take up these specialties, while IMGs with much less or nil loans do not mind taking up primary care.

Typically Primary Care pays in Houston, TX around $150K, in Miami and New York and L.A. $170K. You have to bear in mind, however, that in rural areas family physicians with years of experience might earn up to $300K, because they do the full scope of care, including pediatrics and obstetrics.

Due to the restructuring of health system economy in the US, aimed to cut down spending on specialist and improve primary care, the demand for Family practitioners has seen a whopping growth. There are ways to increase the bottom line with Family Practice. For instance, office procedures and cosmetic procedures shoot one's income up, so the family practice resident should choose a program that trains him enough, say, in colonoscopies. Also some residency programs offer dual training, like Family Practice-Psychiatry, which by the way is pretty hot at the moment. As a friend tells me, his senior resident in Family-Psychiatry program recently accepted a job offer in an underserved area of Texas for a salary of $335K per annum!!

Another pathway is gaining hotness with family practice guys and other family practice folks (internal medicine, pediatrics, etc). The Hospitalist Pathway. Technically, a hospitalist is someone who devotes more than 25% of his time to a hospital.

Yet another pathway that is helping family physicians rope in big money and have more relaxed, contolled lifestyles is that of "concierge medicine," "concierge practicing" (also known as "boutique" or "retainer practice") Instead of cramming tons of patients in a single day that are insured by third-party payers like Medicare, Medicaid and private insurances, you let loyal patients in your area "sign-up" or "subscribe" to your clinical primary care service for a yearly fee. In other words, you provide your own insurance and provide a prepaid primary care model. The PCPs no longer need to work 12 hours a day just to have critical volume to make a good salary, but rather only need to see about 2-5 patients a day or less and make the same or even MORE money. The patients in turn get more quality time with their doctor and less waiting time. I once read an article on how a family physician made $300K a year with 3-4 hours work a day after having about 200 patients subscribe to his practice at two-levels, Basic Service at $1,200 a year, and Plus Service that includes round-the-clock access even on weekends at a higher fee.

experiam

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #262 on: May 15, 2007, 02:31:33 AM »

By SAIRA RAO

December 31, 2006 -- The city largest, most prestigious law firms are suffering from serious brain drain. Young, Gen-X lawyers in their third to fifth year in the business are walking away from their $200,000-a-year positions in record numbers -- at times without another job in view. The reason? They are unhappy with their Blackberry lifestyle -- being tethered to the job 24/7 and having to rush back to the office at a moment notice when e-mail orders pop up on the ubiquitous PDA. The exodus of law firm associates is unprecedented, according to NALP which found that 37% of associates leave large firms within the first 3 years. A whopping 77% of associates leave within 5 years, according to NALP latest survey. That is up sharply from recent years, and the resulting brain drain is wrecking havoc on law firms.

There is a significant drain on your potential as a firm if you cannot mitigate it, says Mike, a partner at a 400-plus lawyer Big Apple firm, said of the young legal eagle exodus. Mike, like many lawyers interviewed for this story, spoke only if neither they or their firm were identified, fearing client losses. While increased attrition is a typical effect of a relatively healthy economy, Mike claimed, It would be a mistake to say it is all driven by the economics. The big-firm brain drain is also giving partners a major case of agita -- forcing them to do the yeoman grunt work usually assigned to associates. In addition, the firms are being forced to scramble to fill the mid-level talent void. Some are even doing the previously unheard of -- hiring from second-tier law schools.

John, a fifth year associate at a prominent Wall Street firm, is, like many young lawyers, walking out the door. He is leaving for a coveted in-house position at an investment bank. \'I am just waiting for my bonus,\' the 31-year-old says. In fact, the next major wave of legal brain drain will occur over the next few weeks as young lawyers jump ship after collecting their bonus checks. \'It is the mid-levels, the 3rd through 5th years that are leaving, so you are losing people you have spent lots of money on training, and just as they start to run things, they leave, and firms become less profitable, Mike, the partner, adds. John, the associate ready to leave, notices the effect of the mid-level brain drain at his own firm. Gone, he said, is the traditional pyramid of power, from the numerous first-year associates up to select first-year partners.

It is gone from a pyramid to a strange hourglass shape, John says. It is bizarre. Now you will see deal teams with a partner and a first-year associate, with nobody in the middle. You should see the partners. They are doing the work of mid-levels to pick up the slack. And even though they make over $1 million, they never see their family. There is little reward in that for me. Tagg Grant, 31, could not agree more. The self-described "recovering lawyer" removed himself from firm life last year, as a third-year corporate associate. I did not want to sleep on my office floor anymore or wonder if I had a change of underwear somewhere in my file cabinet, he says.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/12312006/business/lawyers__fun__money_business_saira_rao.htm?page=1


I recognize her name, she's written this book



The devil holds a gavel in this wickedly entertaining debut novel about a young attorney’s eventful year clerking for a federal judge. Sheila Raj is a recent graduate of a top-ten law school with dreams of working for the ACLU, but law school did not prepare her for the power-hungry sociopath, Judge Helga Friedman, who greets her on her first day. While her beleaguered colleagues begin quitting their jobs, Sheila is assigned to a high-profile death penalty case and suddenly realizes that she has to survive the year as Friedman’s chambermaid — not just her sanity, but actual lives hang in the balance. With Chambermaid, debut novelist Saira Rao breaks the code of silence surrounding the clerkship and boldly takes us into the mysterious world of the third branch of US government, where the leaders are not elected and can never be fired. With its biting wit and laugh-out-loud humor, this novel will change everything you think you know about how great lawyers, and great judges, are made.

marcusbarnes30

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #263 on: May 15, 2007, 01:05:24 PM »
I know a third-year associate at an elite New York law firm. He says that good grades in law school are a generally reliable indication of "intellect" or "smarts." The vast majority of those who reflexively scoff at the idea of working as an associate at an elite law firm do so out of pure jealousy. If they could land such employment, they would accept gladly (save, perhaps, for those too paralyzed by the fear of incompetence).

He concedes that he regularly experiences intense frustration caused by the combined idiosyncrasies of his co-workers and the inevitable disappointments of a business day. However, he is confident to a metaphysical certainty that such frustrations exist in every work place (including the quaint, little home-office setup described by the above poster).

It is a fair trade to work under such conditions and, on occasion, to suffer the involuntary sacrifices of time you would have otherwise preferred to reserve for personal use, in exchange for a quite handsome total compensation package and the respect (earned or not) that accompanies employment at an elite law firm.

Indeed, he has difficulty understanding what others find so loathsome about working at an elite law firm (judging from the comments, it seems these are individuals who have either never held such employment, or did so in a manner that failed to satisfy the expectations of their employer).

His "Biglaw" job allows him to indulge his mild acquisitiveness, pay his student loans faithfully, and save a more than modest amount each month, all of which is more than many are able to do on salaries from "lesser" employers. Further, should he decide to leave his current employment in the future, he believes that his time spent as an associate in the elite law firm, working with preeminent figures in the area of his specialization, will open more doors, more widely, than would be the case had he spent his time engaged in most other legal jobs.

Maybe he could be a little happier in his employment (like maybe he could be in San Francisco instead of Manhattan, or maybe working half-days), but one thing is for sure: he could be a lot less happy.

This gentleman sounds like a very sad and pathetic sole. If I were a betting man I would say he doesn't have a wife, family, girlfriend, boyfriend, lover, dog, cat, gerbil or imaginary friend. Anyone that has trouble understanding what others find "loathsome" about working 65+ hours a week needs to wake and smell the blunt smoke. Christ, I would hate to work side by side with him

moneylaw

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #264 on: May 16, 2007, 12:04:17 AM »

Even top USMLE scores (such as 240-250) won't really compensate for the fact that you completed your medical studies at a non-US school (even if your med school GPA was high).


I tend to believe USMLE scores do not matter that much, provided you get a passing score (185 I believe) -- just like the case is with state bar exams.

transunion

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #265 on: May 16, 2007, 12:32:38 AM »

The city largest, most prestigious law firms are suffering from serious brain drain. Young, Gen-X lawyers in their third to fifth year in the business are walking away from their $200,000-a-year positions in record numbers -- at times without another job in view. The reason? They are unhappy with their Blackberry lifestyle -- being tethered to the job 24/7 and having to rush back to the office at a moment notice when e-mail orders pop up on the ubiquitous PDA. The exodus of law firm associates is unprecedented, according to NALP which found that 37% of associates leave large firms within the first 3 years. A whopping 77% of associates leave within 5 years, according to NALP latest survey. That is up sharply from recent years, and the resulting brain drain is wrecking havoc on law firms.


So basically most associates go thru that hell for some 3-5 years to make a bit money to pay the student loans and that's it ?!

Weezer1223

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #266 on: May 16, 2007, 12:46:13 AM »
Pretty much. I've decided to go the Government route. The pay isn't that great, but boy do you have time to enjoy your life. Working for Westlaw looks like a pretty good gig, too.

helga

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #267 on: May 16, 2007, 01:21:37 AM »

Exactly, loan payer, according to this line of reasoning few families in the US should take mortgages. If you take, say, a $300,000 mortgage and are able to pay monthly only some $2,000 -- it'll take 20 years to pay it off and become the owner, point in time when you can sell it and hopefully make some profit.



Somebody please explain to me how you make profits after you become the owner of your house and sell it ...


I think you'll have real value in the house you own (equity) in case you pay less interest over the course of the years than the actual value of the house. In the case above, you clearly are at a profit after 20 years of repaying mortgage.

fill-in-the-blanks

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #268 on: May 16, 2007, 02:38:51 AM »

It is a fair trade to work under such conditions and, on occasion, to suffer the involuntary sacrifices of time you would have otherwise preferred to reserve for personal use, in exchange for a quite handsome total compensation package and the respect (earned or not) that accompanies employment at an elite law firm.


Exactly, equifax, even assuming you're working some 60 works a week, your hourly rate would still be $60, as opposed to a lousy $30 an hour, say, a typical entry-level prosecutor gets!

Quote


Further, should he decide to leave his current employment in the future, he believes that his time spent as an associate in the elite law firm, working with preeminent figures in the area of his specialization, will open more doors, more widely, than would be the case had he spent his time engaged in most other legal jobs.



Not to mention that you take clients with yourself when you leave and set up your own firm!

grand slam

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #269 on: May 16, 2007, 07:20:42 AM »

[...] as opposed to a lousy $30 an hour, say, a typical entry-level prosecutor gets!


I wouldn't grant even $25/hr, let alone $30/hr