Law School Discussion

1 year later....still glad u went to law school?

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #100 on: July 19, 2006, 06:20:39 PM »
Depressed, substance-abusing people become depressed, substance-abusing AFTER they start law school, they are normal when they enter the hell.

I think I've seen a study on that somewhere. 


On a related note, has anyone read   Making Docile Lawyers: An Essay on the Pacification of Law Students, 111 Harv. L. Rev. 2027 (1998)?  It's an amazingly frank and brutally honest account of what law school does to many students, written by an HLS student.

Budlaw

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #101 on: July 19, 2006, 08:49:02 PM »
Depressed, substance-abusing people become depressed, substance-abusing AFTER they start law school, they are normal when they enter the hell.

I think I've seen a study on that somewhere. 


On a related note, has anyone read   Making Docile Lawyers: An Essay on the Pacification of Law Students, 111 Harv. L. Rev. 2027 (1998)?  It's an amazingly frank and brutally honest account of what law school does to many students, written by an HLS student.

Funny I'm not a coke addict yet. What exactly DOES lawschool do to students besides teach them to become lawyers? If you're going to become an alcoholic or drug addict you don't need lawschool to do that to you. You can do that on your own. That article you reference is mere propoganda.

I'm from South Georgia. I knew people that were drug addicts and alcoholics and they never even went to college. What is your point?

Get real, lawschool doesn't make people alcoholics or drug addicts, people turn themselves into these things. Further what school do you go to that it's a "hell"? I've yet to see fire and brimstone or any demons at Florida State.

You and the "intellectual" Harvard student that wrote the article you reference are absurd if you think that it's lawschool that makes someone an addict.

Idiots.

kmpnj

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #102 on: July 19, 2006, 11:34:23 PM »
Depressed, substance-abusing people become depressed, substance-abusing AFTER they start law school, they are normal when they enter the hell.

I think I've seen a study on that somewhere. 


On a related note, has anyone read   Making Docile Lawyers: An Essay on the Pacification of Law Students, 111 Harv. L. Rev. 2027 (1998)?  It's an amazingly frank and brutally honest account of what law school does to many students, written by an HLS student.

Funny I'm not a coke addict yet. What exactly DOES lawschool do to students besides teach them to become lawyers? If you're going to become an alcoholic or drug addict you don't need lawschool to do that to you. You can do that on your own. That article you reference is mere propoganda.

I'm from South Georgia. I knew people that were drug addicts and alcoholics and they never even went to college. What is your point?

Get real, lawschool doesn't make people alcoholics or drug addicts, people turn themselves into these things. Further what school do you go to that it's a "hell"? I've yet to see fire and brimstone or any demons at Florida State.

You and the "intellectual" Harvard student that wrote the article you reference are absurd if you think that it's lawschool that makes someone an addict.

Idiots.

I would tend to agree that people who turn to substance abuse to deal with the stress of law school were probably predisposed to turn to substance abuse to deal with any stress, no matter its source.  I think that part of the problem is that nothing is anyone's fault in this country anymore.  I know I'm going to get slammed for the following statement, but I truly believe that this whole "Substance Abuse is a disease" thing is a crock.  Cancer is a disease, AIDS is a disease, Diabetes is a disease.  There is no 12-step program for Cancer, but there is for addictions.  I also don't buy into the whole "genetic" thing either.  My birth father was a huge alcoholic.  Also liked to beat up everyone in the house.  My mom left him when I was 6 and to this day, I can have a beer or two and be done.  In fact, I don't think I'm really addicted to anything (besides food, water and air).  I just think that its way to easy for anyone to label whatever faults or foibles they have (and we all have them) as "diseases."  Just my opinion, anyway.

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #103 on: July 20, 2006, 05:36:47 AM »
That article you reference is mere propoganda.

And have you even read it?


Quote
Get real, lawschool doesn't make people alcoholics or drug addicts, people turn themselves into these things.

I never said law school makes people alcoholics or drug addicts.  But for a significant number of lawyers, their problems with substance abuse begin in law school.  That's not to say that law school is the cause -- it may only be a trigger -- but there is a link.  The fact that the AOD abuse begins in law school is the problem.  Whether it's a problem because law school causes it or because law school attracts students who are predisposed to self-medication is, in my mind, irrelevant.  It's a problem that needs to be dealt with.  Most law schools don't seem to have much support for helping students in this regard.

There's also one study that indicates that first-year law students, before classes begin first year, are psychologically healthy (healthier than students in other disciplines).  By the end of first year, 20-30% of them are clinically depressed, and those statistics stay steady into their careers.  That's something like 10 times the rate of depression of the national population.  Again, I don't really care whether it's law school that causes the depression or whether it's only the trigger for individuals who are predisposed to it.  It's a huge problem, and one that needs to be acknowledged and dealt with somehow.



And isn't Florida State home to one of the professors who's a leader in the law school "humanization" movement, trying to lessen students' stress etc.?


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You and the "intellectual" Harvard student that wrote the article you reference are absurd if you think that it's lawschool that makes someone an addict.

Idiots.

There's no need for name-calling. 

rev

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #104 on: July 20, 2006, 07:13:15 AM »
type a's are somewhat more prone to self-sufficiency; including self-medication, and a reluctance to seek professional help -- irrespective of profession.

however, the higher th stress level associated with the activity, the higher the incidence of abuse.  some of the top professions are medical <especially nurses>, dentists, clergy, and of course, attorneys.  the 'helping professions' are especially prone to this.

when i went to treatment for a prescription drug addiction, my group included 3 nurses, an attorney, a business owner, and a priest.  my sponsors have been a college professor, a doctor, and a district court judge.

i have already been through that hell, and i know damn well that nothing in the world will make me go back.  if the price of sobriety is learning some humility and asking for help when i need it, so be it.

everyone who thinks, 'oh that could never happen to me, youre just weak'  -- good luck to you, and i hope youre right

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #105 on: July 20, 2006, 11:42:19 AM »
when i went to treatment for a prescription drug addiction, my group included 3 nurses, an attorney, a business owner, and a priest.  my sponsors have been a college professor, a doctor, and a district court judge.

i have already been through that hell, and i know d**mn well that nothing in the world will make me go back.  if the price of sobriety is learning some humility and asking for help when i need it, so be it.

everyone who thinks, 'oh that could never happen to me, youre just weak'  -- good luck to you, and i hope youre right

Actually, it is weakness. A way of rationalizing one's own failures. We're all highly intelligent on this board (at worst, average); we all knew before any drug use that we have, or haven't done what were the potential consequences of our actions. Only by naivity and youthful arrogance would one dismiss the possiblity of addiction.

Responsiblity is not just something that is accomplished reactively. It is possible to go into a potentially stressful environment and submit oneself to stimuli that are conducive to drug use and not become an addict. Conversely, it is irresponsible to rationalize drug use away by blaming it on the perceived "cause" of the addiction.

The only real cause of addiction is weakness.

rev

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #106 on: July 20, 2006, 03:18:27 PM »


i wasnt out on the street buying crack, it was prescribed by a doctor in ever increasing doses.

i took it exactly as prescribed.  how irresponsible of me.

that's hardly a personal failure, and certainly not much to rationalize away.









Budlaw

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #107 on: July 20, 2006, 03:41:11 PM »
That article you reference is mere propoganda.

And have you even read it?


Quote
Get real, lawschool doesn't make people alcoholics or drug addicts, people turn themselves into these things.

I never said law school makes people alcoholics or drug addicts.  But for a significant number of lawyers, their problems with substance abuse begin in law school.  That's not to say that law school is the cause -- it may only be a trigger -- but there is a link.  The fact that the AOD abuse begins in law school is the problem.  Whether it's a problem because law school causes it or because law school attracts students who are predisposed to self-medication is, in my mind, irrelevant.  It's a problem that needs to be dealt with.  Most law schools don't seem to have much support for helping students in this regard.

There's also one study that indicates that first-year law students, before classes begin first year, are psychologically healthy (healthier than students in other disciplines).  By the end of first year, 20-30% of them are clinically depressed, and those statistics stay steady into their careers.  That's something like 10 times the rate of depression of the national population.  Again, I don't really care whether it's law school that causes the depression or whether it's only the trigger for individuals who are predisposed to it.  It's a huge problem, and one that needs to be acknowledged and dealt with somehow.



And isn't Florida State home to one of the professors who's a leader in the law school "humanization" movement, trying to lessen students' stress etc.?


Quote
You and the "intellectual" Harvard student that wrote the article you reference are absurd if you think that it's lawschool that makes someone an addict.

Idiots.

There's no need for name-calling. 

Yes I have and I found it to be basically a bunch of B.S.

Just because some people like to attribute their own inherent flaws to an externality doesn't make it true. Alcoholism and Drug dependency are personal choices that are not influenced by one's school. When a person says that the reason they do drugs or drink too much is because of "stress" they're just making excuses and rationalizing thier own behaivor.


I believe you are referring to Larry Krieger. Yes he is at FSU, what's your point? I haven't seen any programs set up to lessen student's stress by him at FSU. (and that guy is a freakin weirdo)

The amazing thing is that it's not Law School that puts stress on students, it's the student's  that put all the stress on themselves. Because when you think about it, Law School is easy, there shouldn't be any stress. You basically only have to read and then take one test. What they hell is so hard about that? You don't have to turn in assignments everyday, and you don't have constant deadlines. So exactly what is so hard about lawschool?

The only "stress" involved is when people place stress on themselves. It's all internal. Nothing more. So attributing your alcoholism or drug use or depression to lawschool is simply ludicrous. Attribute it to your own screwed up personality, but don't place the blame on a professional school. 

(and name calling is needed when it's deemed necessary...and in your case it is)

 :-*






Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #108 on: July 20, 2006, 04:08:33 PM »
Quote
(and name calling is needed when it's deemed necessary...and in your case it is)

 :-*




And to imagine I thought I could actually have an adult, civil conversation without namecalling.  Silly me.  I apologize for that silly assumption, and I hereby withdraw from any further debate, as I see it would be futile.

Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #109 on: July 20, 2006, 05:59:46 PM »
Addicts will become addicts, regardless of profession. People only notice it more when in a "prestigous" profession. No cares enough to do a report on drug abuse in the janitorial industry.