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Author Topic: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?  (Read 131308 times)

xferlawstudent

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #140 on: November 06, 2006, 09:06:01 AM »

The public perceives lawyers as greedy, arrogant and dishonest.

If you go to law school to get rich, there's some hope that you can achieve that goal, but you will be miserable even when you are rich. Most lawyers are so unhappy with what they're doing, whether they go to work for that big firm that's offering them the big bucks or pursue a career in public interest law.


Greed, for lack of a better word, is good. Greed is right; greed works. Greed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit. Greed, in all of its forms, greed for life, for money, for love, knowledge has marked the upward surge of mankind and greed, you mark my words will save the malfunctioning corporation called the USA.

At UC Berkeley, arbitrageur Ivan Boesky, said in 1985, "Greed is all right, by the way. I want you to know that. I think greed is healthy. You can be greedy and still feel good about yourself." Ultimately the "Greed is Good" philosophy could be seen as related to what Adam Smith concluded about human nature. Smith believed that in general honest people freed to pursue their own interest would fare better than they would under a system that dictated what was "good." In the process, persons pursuing their own interests would eliminate inefficiencies and allocate commodities where they would benefit the greater society.





Smith said, "It is not by the benevolence of the butcher or baker that I get fed, but by their own self-interest."
(paraphrased)

pruritis

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #141 on: November 07, 2006, 08:46:48 PM »
At the age of 4, Smith was kidnapped by a band of Gypsies. The world would have been a slightly better place to live had they handled Smith more appropriately.
When I dance they call me macarena
and the boys they say that I'm buena
they all want me, they can't have me
So they all come and dance beside me
move with me jam with me
and if your good i take you home with me

xferlawstudent

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #142 on: November 08, 2006, 05:10:03 PM »
While Adam Smith is considered the father of economics, you would be hard pressed to find an educated economist who thinks Smith got it right.  Smith's main accomplishment was recognizing that a market, WITHOUT HUMAN UNPREDICTABILITY (strong emphasis), will clear itself. 

However, everyone knows that there is no such thing as a perfectly competitve market and that humans are very often not rational actors.

Also, Smith didn't even understand marginalism, thus his failure to resolve his diamond-water paradox.


At the age of 4, Smith was kidnapped by a band of Gypsies. The world would have been a slightly better place to live had they handled Smith more appropriately.

butas

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #143 on: November 19, 2006, 11:21:35 AM »
moneycreation, your signature is so fukking funny ... I couldn't stop laughing!

clyons1179

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #144 on: November 20, 2006, 10:37:16 PM »
Yes.  But, as someone else has mentioned, I would highly recommend that you work in a law firm (or several, through a temp agency) before deciding to go to law school.

By the time I started law school, I had been working in law firms for five years, first as a legal secretary then as a paralegal.

Something that I noticed right away is that law school is nothing like the real life practice of law. Although having legal experience did not make law school any easier, it did make me realize that I KNOW that I enjoy the actual PRACTICE of law...even if there are some days that I feel like I hate law school.

During the 5 years I spent working in law firms, I loved my job.  That's why I went to law school in the first place (even though sometimes I have to remind myself of that!!)

So, if you're already in law school, my advice would be not to make up your mind that you hate the law just yet.  There are so many things you can do with a law degree, and so many areas you can practice in...just be positive about it and keep looking until you find the the type of law and/or law firm or other profession you really enjoy.





Jack Leatherman

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #145 on: November 26, 2006, 12:07:47 AM »

[...] I've been in the Marines, I've worked Construction, and I've worked as a legal assistant at a law firm. I actually like getting up and going to lawschool, [...]


So basically you're a blue collar guy trying to become a white collar one?

Who's to say someone who's "blue collar" can't succeed in law school? Perhaps those who've actually done some manual labor for a living appreciate a desk job more than those who've never appreciated their entitlements.


No doubt about it! And they'll flaunt it real bad!

inthelaw45

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #146 on: December 06, 2006, 06:02:05 PM »
one semester later...I'm not so sure.  But I worked in a law firm for two years before coming to law school.  That was better than school.  So maybe there's hope.  I enjoy the client aspect of the law, and first year of law school is all reading and analysis.  Alot of it is quite boring.  I think I'll be happier when my job enables me to talk to people and be in court from time to time

UChi2L

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #147 on: December 06, 2006, 06:03:40 PM »
one semester later...I'm not so sure.  But I worked in a law firm for two years before coming to law school.  That was better than school.  So maybe there's hope.  I enjoy the client aspect of the law, and first year of law school is all reading and analysis.  Alot of it is quite boring.  I think I'll be happier when my job enables me to talk to people and be in court from time to time

Two and a half years later, still unsure.  Love the challenge, love the academic rigors, HATE the other BS.
I have to believe in a world outside my own mind. I have to believe that my actions still have meaning, even if I can't remember them. I have to believe that when my eyes are closed, the world's still there. Do I believe the world's still there? Is it still out there?... Yeah.

m a n n a

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #148 on: December 16, 2006, 10:41:17 PM »

In my personal opinion, the only good thing about law firms are the salaries they provide.  Everything else about them is negative.  just my 2 cents.

To elaborate, most people complain about the hours...I don't really care abour hours because that's just life. Even if you're working for yourself in your own business you're going to put in hours. But keep in mind, I'm single with no kids so I'm biassed.  If you were trying to have any significant family QT, working at a manhattan firm is not exactly conducive to that.

Also, you have to accept that if you're working for big law you're working for the bad guys.  If you have a strong conscience this is not the job for you.  I handled an employment discrimination/sexual harassment claim the other day and my main job was to find case law that would allow us to conceed that harassment took place but still screw the plaintiffs over by dismissing their case because they missed the statute of limitations time period by a few weeks.  Stuff like that.

But I think my main complaint is that the work that you get at a law firm is monkey work compared to the work you get working for a judge.  Especially in NY.  Assoc's get all this doc review and depostition summaries (not fun) and junk like that.  Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of research assignments but its just not the same.  I think the District Court experience spoiled me.  I'm used to writing court opinions and picking apart other law firms' case briefs, etc.  You get to see the big picture of the practice working for the court. From the law firm assoc' perspective you only get to see bits and pieces of litigation.

But some people have no problem doing the monkey work after spending 3 years towards a legal education so hey, to each their own.



The myth of the six-figure-plus salary for a top school top law graduate seems to be emblazoned into the collective unconscious. Every website mentions it, the US News and World Report articles report on it, and every watercooler kibbitzing session on law school invariably broaches it. This six-figure salary is often much higher than that of any law school grad. These rumors, conjectures, and statistics provide a quite alluring draw, so let's explore them a bit. In all fairness, there are many individuals who receive high salaries upon graduation.

Unfortunately, however, there is a flip side. Median compensation numbers are inflated since the schools only release statistics on self-reported information, and not all graduates reply to the survey. For example, the $115,000 median income could the average of 600 respondents, not of 778 graduates. This disconnect introduces what statisticians refer to as a "non-response bias", meaning that when it comes to reporting something as ego-sensitive as compensation, people receiving low salaries are unlikely to respond. Such a bias implies that the true average compensation is lower.

Secondly, one must beware of what I refer to as the "Keanu Reeves Factor" (in homage to his riveting performance in "A Devil's Advocate"). The Keanu Reeves factor dictates that in order to earn these six-figure salaries, one typically needs to land a job where one must sell one's soul to the devil. This underworld reference is not intended to refer to the "insert-your-favorite-corporate-crook-here" law graduates of yesteryear, but rather to the infernal quality of life that law firm associates lead. The hours are really, really, long and you completely surrender control over your life. It sucks even worse than people say it sucks.

Thirdly (if that's actually a word), the return on investment might not be as high as you might think. The student loan repayments will be a staggering, non-tax deductible $1,500/ month (assuming a 10 year repayment period). Think about it.

Budlaw

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Re: 1 year later....still glad u went to law school?
« Reply #149 on: December 16, 2006, 11:05:59 PM »
Here's where you stole your "post" from:

http://mbacaveatemptor.blogspot.com/

Why are you such a @ # ! * i n g loser? I bet you don't even go to law school, and I bet you weigh like 300 pounds.

Loser!



In my personal opinion, the only good thing about law firms are the salaries they provide.  Everything else about them is negative.  just my 2 cents.

To elaborate, most people complain about the hours...I don't really care abour hours because that's just life. Even if you're working for yourself in your own business you're going to put in hours. But keep in mind, I'm single with no kids so I'm biassed.  If you were trying to have any significant family QT, working at a manhattan firm is not exactly conducive to that.

Also, you have to accept that if you're working for big law you're working for the bad guys.  If you have a strong conscience this is not the job for you.  I handled an employment discrimination/sexual harassment claim the other day and my main job was to find case law that would allow us to conceed that harassment took place but still screw the plaintiffs over by dismissing their case because they missed the statute of limitations time period by a few weeks.  Stuff like that.

But I think my main complaint is that the work that you get at a law firm is monkey work compared to the work you get working for a judge.  Especially in NY.  Assoc's get all this doc review and depostition summaries (not fun) and junk like that.  Don't get me wrong, I've had plenty of research assignments but its just not the same.  I think the District Court experience spoiled me.  I'm used to writing court opinions and picking apart other law firms' case briefs, etc.  You get to see the big picture of the practice working for the court. From the law firm assoc' perspective you only get to see bits and pieces of litigation.

But some people have no problem doing the monkey work after spending 3 years towards a legal education so hey, to each their own.



The myth of the six-figure-plus salary for a top school top law graduate seems to be emblazoned into the collective unconscious. Every website mentions it, the US News and World Report articles report on it, and every watercooler kibbitzing session on law school invariably broaches it. This six-figure salary is often much higher than that of any law school grad. These rumors, conjectures, and statistics provide a quite alluring draw, so let's explore them a bit. In all fairness, there are many individuals who receive high salaries upon graduation.

Unfortunately, however, there is a flip side. Median compensation numbers are inflated since the schools only release statistics on self-reported information, and not all graduates reply to the survey. For example, the $115,000 median income could the average of 600 respondents, not of 778 graduates. This disconnect introduces what statisticians refer to as a "non-response bias", meaning that when it comes to reporting something as ego-sensitive as compensation, people receiving low salaries are unlikely to respond. Such a bias implies that the true average compensation is lower.

Secondly, one must beware of what I refer to as the "Keanu Reeves Factor" (in homage to his riveting performance in "A Devil's Advocate"). The Keanu Reeves factor dictates that in order to earn these six-figure salaries, one typically needs to land a job where one must sell one's soul to the devil. This underworld reference is not intended to refer to the "insert-your-favorite-corporate-crook-here" law graduates of yesteryear, but rather to the infernal quality of life that law firm associates lead. The hours are really, really, long and you completely surrender control over your life. It sucks even worse than people say it sucks.

Thirdly (if that's actually a word), the return on investment might not be as high as you might think. The student loan repayments will be a staggering, non-tax deductible $1,500/ month (assuming a 10 year repayment period). Think about it.