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Author Topic: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!  (Read 77370 times)

ellybean909

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #100 on: June 25, 2006, 10:42:20 PM »

And to the dumba*s that made a comment about ADD at 28 - you can develop it at any age, whether or not you are still being educated. You can get 4.0's and 99% test scores your whole life and then suddenly find yourself having extreme difficulty. Do some research before you assume you know what you're critizing.

You have to show symptoms of impulsivity or inattention before the age of 7 for a diagnosis of ADHD.  While an adult can be diagnosed with ADHD the psychologist would have to do a retroactive diagnoses meaning that these symptons were there in childhood but never found out.  A mental health professional is typically reluctant to do so with students who were invloved in formal education due to the fact that someone else should have picked them up.  The issue of adult onset ADHD is a contraversial one right now, with some saying it can be that a person develops a new set they've never had before while another group saying it's not possible.  Currently the DSM still lists this disorder in the subsection Disorders Usually First Diagnosed in Infancy, Childhood or Adolencence. And the APA has not recognized adult onset ADHD to be a valid disorder. The DSM is the publication that all mental disorders available for diagnostic are listed along with the minimum symptoms needed to meet such a diagnostic.  Its published and revised by the American Psychology Association. If it's not listed in the DSM then it basically isn't considered valid science until it gets in there. 

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/adhd.htm
if you want to read about ADHD. (formerly called ADD)

Behavenet is not summarizing DSM-IV - it is commentating on some medical views on the condition. True DSM-IV on the condition if very vague. Also, the medical community has expanded its diagnostic capability to combine the ADD/ADHD definition into one with three categories: "the DSM-IV identifies three sub-types of AD/HD, depending on the presence or absence of particular symptoms: Inattentive type, Hyperactive type, and Combined type."

Myth # 2: AD/HD is a Disorder of Childhood

Early discussions of AD/HD theorized that individuals outgrew the disorder (Ingram, Hechtman, & Morgenstein, 1999). This notion has been dispelled by long-term studies showing that anywhere from 70-80 percent of children with AD/HD exhibit significant signs of restlessness and distractibility into adolescence and young adulthood, while a large percentage suffer co-morbid psychiatric disorders, academic failure, and social isolation and/or rejection (Barkley et al., 1990; Barkley, 1998). Research estimates that 1.5 to 2 percent of adults have AD/HD (Hunt, 1997), and between two and six percent of adolescents have AD/HD (Murphy & Barkley, 1996). Cuffe et al. (2001) found that children with persistent AD/HD have more severe AD/HD and adverse risk factors later in life. Adverse factors impact the expression of AD/HD and increase the risk for associated disorders that compromise adjustment over the lifespan. Thus, AD/HD is a lifelong disorder that requires a developmental framework for appropriate diagnosis and treatment (Teeter, 1998).

The DSM-IV recognizes it is not only a development of childhood and does NOT specify age:

n children and teenagers, the symptoms must be more frequent or severe compared to other children the same age. In adults, the symptoms must affect the ability to function in daily life and persist from childhood.

In addition, the behaviors must create significant difficulty in at least two areas of life, such as home, social settings, school, or work. Symptoms must be present for at least six months.

Criteria for the three primary subtypes are:

AD/HD - Inattentive Type

    * Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
    * Has difficulty sustaining attention.
    * Does not appear to listen.
    * Struggles to follow through on instructions.
    * Has difficulty with organization.
    * Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
    * Loses things.
    * Is easily distracted.
    * Is forgetful in daily activities.

AD/HD - Hyperactive Type

    * Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in chair.
    * Has difficulty remaining seated.
    * Runs about or climbs excessively.
    * Difficulty engaging in activities quietly.
    * Acts as if driven by a motor.
    * Talks excessively.
    * Blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
    * Difficulty waiting or taking turns.
    * Interrupts or intrudes upon others.

AD/HD - Combined Type

    * Individual meets both sets of inattention and hyperactive/impulsive criteria.

- http://www.help4adhd.org/en/treatment/guides/dsm

---

Also...as for your mark that the APA doesn't recognize adult onset AD/HD - they seem to have not made a comment either way. They do, however, recognize it can LAST a lifetime:

"Current research demonstrates that ADHD is a complex disorder that may affect someone across his or her entire life span." - http://www.apa.org/ppo/issues/pconstest.html

---

AD/HD is very misunderstood still. Maybe if people (not you, but in general) took the time to research it, these assumptions like the one you quoted wouldn't be made.

Budlaw

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #101 on: June 26, 2006, 12:28:13 AM »
LSAT is essentially an IQ test.

"Essentially" is not the same as "actually". People that score in the 50th percintile of an IQ can't even get into college. Wheras people that score in the 50th percintile of the LSAT are college graduates.

hotdiggity

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #102 on: June 26, 2006, 02:02:01 PM »

And to the dumba*s that made a comment about ADD at 28 - you can develop it at any age, whether or not you are still being educated. You can get 4.0's and 99% test scores your whole life and then suddenly find yourself having extreme difficulty. Do some research before you assume you know what you're critizing.

You have to show symptoms of impulsivity or inattention before the age of 7 for a diagnosis of ADHD.  While an adult can be diagnosed with ADHD the psychologist would have to do a retroactive diagnoses meaning that these symptons were there in childhood but never found out.  A mental health professional is typically reluctant to do so with students who were invloved in formal education due to the fact that someone else should have picked them up.  The issue of adult onset ADHD is a contraversial one right now, with some saying it can be that a person develops a new set they've never had before while another group saying it's not possible.  Currently the DSM still lists this disorder in the subsection Disorders Usually First Diagnosed in Infancy, Childhood or Adolencence. And the APA has not recognized adult onset ADHD to be a valid disorder. The DSM is the publication that all mental disorders available for diagnostic are listed along with the minimum symptoms needed to meet such a diagnostic.  Its published and revised by the American Psychology Association. If it's not listed in the DSM then it basically isn't considered valid science until it gets in there. 

http://www.behavenet.com/capsules/disorders/adhd.htm
if you want to read about ADHD. (formerly called ADD)

Behavenet is not summarizing DSM-IV - it is commentating on some medical views on the condition. True DSM-IV on the condition if very vague. Also, the medical community has expanded its diagnostic capability to combine the ADD/ADHD definition into one with three categories: "the DSM-IV identifies three sub-types of AD/HD, depending on the presence or absence of particular symptoms: Inattentive type, Hyperactive type, and Combined type."

Myth # 2: AD/HD is a Disorder of Childhood

Early discussions of AD/HD theorized that individuals outgrew the disorder (Ingram, Hechtman, & Morgenstein, 1999). This notion has been dispelled by long-term studies showing that anywhere from 70-80 percent of children with AD/HD exhibit significant signs of restlessness and distractibility into adolescence and young adulthood, while a large percentage suffer co-morbid psychiatric disorders, academic failure, and social isolation and/or rejection (Barkley et al., 1990; Barkley, 1998). Research estimates that 1.5 to 2 percent of adults have AD/HD (Hunt, 1997), and between two and six percent of adolescents have AD/HD (Murphy & Barkley, 1996). Cuffe et al. (2001) found that children with persistent AD/HD have more severe AD/HD and adverse risk factors later in life. Adverse factors impact the expression of AD/HD and increase the risk for associated disorders that compromise adjustment over the lifespan. Thus, AD/HD is a lifelong disorder that requires a developmental framework for appropriate diagnosis and treatment (Teeter, 1998).

The DSM-IV recognizes it is not only a development of childhood and does NOT specify age:

n children and teenagers, the symptoms must be more frequent or severe compared to other children the same age. In adults, the symptoms must affect the ability to function in daily life and persist from childhood.

In addition, the behaviors must create significant difficulty in at least two areas of life, such as home, social settings, school, or work. Symptoms must be present for at least six months.

Criteria for the three primary subtypes are:

AD/HD - Inattentive Type

    * Fails to give close attention to details or makes careless mistakes.
    * Has difficulty sustaining attention.
    * Does not appear to listen.
    * Struggles to follow through on instructions.
    * Has difficulty with organization.
    * Avoids or dislikes tasks requiring sustained mental effort.
    * Loses things.
    * Is easily distracted.
    * Is forgetful in daily activities.

AD/HD - Hyperactive Type

    * Fidgets with hands or feet or squirms in chair.
    * Has difficulty remaining seated.
    * Runs about or climbs excessively.
    * Difficulty engaging in activities quietly.
    * Acts as if driven by a motor.
    * Talks excessively.
    * Blurts out answers before questions have been completed.
    * Difficulty waiting or taking turns.
    * Interrupts or intrudes upon others.

AD/HD - Combined Type

    * Individual meets both sets of inattention and hyperactive/impulsive criteria.

- http://www.help4adhd.org/en/treatment/guides/dsm

---

Also...as for your mark that the APA doesn't recognize adult onset AD/HD - they seem to have not made a comment either way. They do, however, recognize it can LAST a lifetime:

"Current research demonstrates that ADHD is a complex disorder that may affect someone across his or her entire life span." - http://www.apa.org/ppo/issues/pconstest.html

---

AD/HD is very misunderstood still. Maybe if people (not you, but in general) took the time to research it, these assumptions like the one you quoted wouldn't be made.

behavnet listed the disorder exactly as the DSM states it, I've checked both the DSM and 2 textbooks I have.  I never said the disorder was only present in children, rather that you must show signs of it in childhood for the disorder to be diagnosed.  What I was referring to was someone who stated that at 28 years old they developed ADHD and went from a genius to failing out of law school. The DSM states explicitly that you must show symptoms before 7 years old.  Not that you meet criterian but show some of the symptoms, you're correct in saying in can last a lifetime and I didn't dispute that fact.  However it is listed as a disorder, "first diagnosed in infancy, childhoold or adolescence." I've done my reserach I've written papers on ADHD, I have a psychology degree from one of the most respected psych programs on the east coast.  So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this.   

nesl512

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #103 on: June 26, 2006, 03:53:18 PM »
To whom may be concerned by this post:
This is all bulls**t. 
Don't believe the rumors that some snot-nosed 22 year-old on a glory trip is feeding you through this post.  There's something about law students (especially those at top schools) that feel it necessary to rip on T4 schools.  Why is that?  Did you do poorly this year?  Does everyone at school dislike you because you're an a**hole?  I'm sure there is some deep seeded reason that you feel it necessary to act like caddy middle school girl.
I go to New England and it's fine...it's great in fact.  My teachers went to Harvard, Stanford, etc.  I learn the same sh*t as everyone else.  I have a summer internship.  I have classmates that work in the governor's office and the DA's office (this is in Boston too where the competition for law students huge).  There is nothing funny about the curve.  We do not loose 30% of 1Ls.
Don't believe the hype!     

ellybean909

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #104 on: June 26, 2006, 04:42:40 PM »

behavnet listed the disorder exactly as the DSM states it, I've checked both the DSM and 2 textbooks I have.  I never said the disorder was only present in children, rather that you must show signs of it in childhood for the disorder to be diagnosed.  What I was referring to was someone who stated that at 28 years old they developed ADHD and went from a genius to failing out of law school. The DSM states explicitly that you must show symptoms before 7 years old.  Not that you meet criterian but show some of the symptoms, you're correct in saying in can last a lifetime and I didn't dispute that fact.  However it is listed as a disorder, "first diagnosed in infancy, childhoold or adolescence." I've done my reserach I've written papers on ADHD, I have a psychology degree from one of the most respected psych programs on the east coast.  So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to this.   

I'm not doubting you - i'm doubting commentary that regards AD/HD as a disorder specifically targeted to children.

I was diagnosed at 20 years old, and looking *back* it makes a lot of sense. However, I was constantly in an environment that allowed me to thrive without significant challenge or detriment to my ego and self. Upon entering college, I found a new environment that allowed the AD/HD to become a signficant challenge. I don't understand how or why environmental changes can do this, but the 28 year old you speak of could have always "suffered" - just not known it due to environemnt. I hope this makes sense.

jason1114

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #105 on: June 26, 2006, 04:56:16 PM »
LSAT is essentially an IQ test.

"Essentially" is not the same as "actually". People that score in the 50th percintile of an IQ can't even get into college. Wheras people that score in the 50th percintile of the LSAT are college graduates.

Ahh... I will have to respectively disagree here, 50th percentile IQ would make you decidely average. And any average kid can study their ass off and make it through an undergrad degree (maybe not in mechanical engineering, or something technical in nature, but a comm or business degree).

ellybean909

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #106 on: June 27, 2006, 03:58:30 AM »
LSAT is essentially an IQ test.

"Essentially" is not the same as "actually". People that score in the 50th percintile of an IQ can't even get into college. Wheras people that score in the 50th percintile of the LSAT are college graduates.

Ahh... I will have to respectively disagree here, 50th percentile IQ would make you decidely average. And any average kid can study their ass off and make it through an undergrad degree (maybe not in mechanical engineering, or something technical in nature, but a comm or business degree).

I think you're confusing the "average" person in general with the "average" person you know.

There are a lot of literally stupid people out there. I'm not referring to disabled or slow. Just not smart (compared to you and I and the rest of the board who could be labeled as such based upon measures of intelligence and true ability.)

There may be more people attending college, making it seem more average, but I still don't beleive the "average" person can graduate from a university - with any degree.

antwan

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #107 on: June 27, 2006, 09:04:18 AM »
agreed, i currently live in the south where the average person has about 4 teeth and thinks that the civil war is still going on.

Erapitt

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #108 on: June 27, 2006, 09:27:43 AM »
What you are failing to realize is that the United States has a 33% illiteracy rate.

Yet you think the "average" person can graduate college.
Attending GW in Fall '06

Dxion

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Re: Law Schools To Avoid At All Costs!
« Reply #109 on: June 27, 2006, 09:30:06 AM »
I'm from the Deep South and everyone I know has all their teeth, is well educated, and makes good money. Of course, I don't live in the 'hood. The fact that"everyone" you associate with is missing teeth says more about you than anything else.