Law School Discussion

UDM fall 2006???

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2006, 03:00:34 PM »
Just wondering...what is the draw of UDM??

I've spent my entire life in the Detroit suburbs and, as you can tell, am gettin the hell out of here. The city of Detroit is pathetic and will be for years as the moronic residents re-elected one of the most corrupt mayors in the nation. But hey, he's ghetto-fabulous, so he should be the mayor of Detroit right? Anyways, the economy here is already tanking and this is only the very, very beginning of hard times.

There are soooo many better options in the area...Wayne, MSU, Toledo, hell, I might even throw in Cooley for the simple fact that it is not in Detroit. MSU is a school on the rise (the recent ranking drop was the result of 40 graduating seniors who failed to report their employment/bar status). They will crack the top 100 in the next few years. MSU's name alone carries more weight in the midwest. Toledo is a top 100 school and offers in-state tuition to Michigan residents. If you insist on staying in Detroit, Wayne is a great school with a great reputation in the area.

I'm sorry if this comes across as a flame, I really am just curious as to what people see in UDM. ???

I'm not sure what you want anyone to say.  It seems you have made your mind up about Detroit.  I think everyone realizes that Detroit's economy is not the greatest, but I am from Western PA and neither is Pittsburgh's. I am looking for something new, and UDM offered me that.  They seem to have a decent reputation especially in Detroit, and throughout Michigan.  I know these were not the answers to your question, but I am more than excited to attend law school at UDM, so I am not sure how that affects you.

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2006, 07:32:33 AM »
I actually grew up near Detroit (Grosse Pointe) and I can tell you that downtown Detroit is probably the safest and most active it has been in my lifetime.  There was a huge build up over the past few years with the superbowl and compuware headquarters being built downtown.  Now I know U of D is closer to the river, but it is still in a nice neighborhood.  A friend of mine from highschool is going into his third year and he is a summer associate at a medium size downtown firm this summer.  As for where to live there are tons of places in and around detroit.  The area around wayne state is safe and you're likely to find a lot of students living there.  Also in Grosse Pointe Park right on the border of Detroit there is an area with dozens of rental apartments and duplexs, they probably go for somewhere between 600-800 a month and are a lot closer and I think less expensive then living out in the Royal Oak area.  I used to drive on Jefferson every morning and it is probably about a 20 minute drive from GP to downtown, depending on how you time the traffic lights.  Congrats on UDM, good luck

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2006, 01:59:22 PM »
Hello. I was a poster on the board referenced above. I just finished my 1st year at UDM. I want to add a few things after reading the previous posts. Yes, the economy in Michigan is *&^% right now, and it is a struggle for graduating law students to find jobs. Also, UDM is not nationally recognized and has  a low ranking. I know many students from other schools as well as some recent graduates. Everyone from any law school is Michigan, with the excetion of UM (you could probably sleep through classes your first year and still get offers), is struggling right now. There is not a big enough demand for attorneys for employers to hire everyone in each graduating class.

For those attending UDM in the fall, you were proably not told that on-campus interviewing that takes place in the fall for 2ls and 3ls (some 1ls, but very few will be hired) are limited to the top 10-25% of the class. All of the top firms (the ones that start their interns off at 1800-2400$ a week) will probaly make it a game for the top 10 people (In my class, that would be about 5%). Dykema, who probably wined and dined you at orientation, is one of these firms. They pay 1800$ a week to students, but will proably only take 1 or 2 from UDM out of a total of 6 or 7. This is actually excellent for a school like UDM, considering they interview from Harvard, Michigan, Wayne, I forget the rest (check out Keep in mind that when I say top 10-25%, these are the people who get interviewed for very few spots. Nobody is guaranteed a job. Also, this is not just UDM. The only campus in Michigan that does not allow employers to pre-screen applicants is UM.

Of course, just because you don't get an interview on campus doesn't mean you won't find a job. The jobs above are the top firms in MI who have the resources to send interviewers to many different schools. Many people find jobs on their own or with assistance from the career services office. Of course, most "during school" or summer jobs are not paid, and with all the debt I'm in, I need to be paid!

For those with questions about transferring, it been trying on my patience. My last exam was on 5/5 and grades came out at the late part of the middle of June. Many school have a 7/1 deadline. Class rankings are still not published, even though you can look at the breakdown of everyone's grades and pretty much figure out your ranking on your own. Many transfer schools require rankings. UM is one of the schools I am applying to as a transfer, and their deadline is July 15th and they require the rankings to complete my file. It is very frustrating. Also, my scholarship letter, a mere 25%, has an acceptance deadline of 7/7. I will not have heard from any of my transfer school by then. Again, very frustrating.

I think I talked about housing on topic quoted above, and I agree with what is said on this board. I live in Troy, a little north of Royal Oak. It is quiet, safe and it is possible to find reasonable cheap places.

I do not agree that there is nothing to do in Detroit! Holy *&^%! Just name what you want to do, and you can do it. Anyone who wants advice on great bars to go to in downtown Detroit or any of the suburbs in Oakland county, PM me, and I'll show you around myself!

Anyway, I love UDM, and if they offer me enough money to stay, I probably will. IT looks like I will make law review and I already made moot court. Keep in mind that it is a hustle to do well. The curve is set at 2.5-2.7 in many classes, so there are very few As. Many people do much worse than they expected to do. Being at the bottom or even the middle of the class at UDM is not a good place to be; yet I am convinced this is the case at any law school in MI with one exception.

Parking at UDM is reserved for the 2 and 3 year students. Evening students also. I parked directly west of the school in Bricktown Parking. It is across the strret from Opus One, a fancy establishment that offers 1/2 off to students and great appetizers. It is also next to The Buzz bar, a great new place with a rooftop bar that is a great place to party. It is 85$ but right next to the school. Shorecrest Inn is also a good place. It is 35$ but requires about a 5-10 minute walk (MI winters suck).

Well, PM me if you have any questions and I'll give you my email address. I would be happy to tell you about the classes you are taking, professors, study aids, anything you need. Later. EMSR

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2006, 07:46:48 AM »
For those attending UDM in the fall, you were proably not told that on-campus interviewing that takes place in the fall for 2ls and 3ls (some 1ls, but very few will be hired) are limited to the top 10-25% of the class.

The curve is set at 2.5-2.7 in many classes, so there are very few As. Many people do much worse than they expected to do. Being at the bottom or even the middle of the class at UDM is not a good place to be;

Shorecrest Inn is also a good place. It is 35$ but requires about a 5-10 minute walk (MI winters suck).

Well, PM me if you have any questions and I'll give you my email address. I would be happy to tell you about the classes you are taking, professors, study aids, anything you need. Later. EMSR

Hi "whiteyemsr", i pm'd u as well for your email address, don't know if you're going to check that first or this so it'll be a double post.  I have a few questions with what you posted.  I am potentially going to be a 1L this coming fall.  I'll list them below to make it easier to read.

1) i know you said OCI are for the top 10-15% of the class... this worries me, what is the typical GPA that's between the top 10-15%? Is it hard to get in that range?

2) I'm a little confused as what the curve means.  I know you said it's on a 2.5 - 2.7 scale.  Does that mean the average GPA of the class is between a 2.5 - 2.7 ? So lets say I have a 3.0, how would that come into play?

3) Is it that bad to walk from Shorecrest Inn in the winter? In terms of safety? Do you know where it is exactly? I might want to check it out to see if it's worth saving the $50 each month.

4) I'm taking a criminal law class this summer with Felder and we have a final coming up on 7/18.  Any tips on how I can ace it? I'm part of the summer 2006 SSP class. 

Thanks so much! I'll PM u with my email address.

I am definitely interested in the questions about OCI, GPA and the grading curve as well. THANKS

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2006, 11:01:00 AM »

Hi Ang,

What is written below is basically for the benefit of anyone else interested in reading. I left you a more detailed reponse in your inbox of the email address you sent to me.

1. OCIs are typically for the top 10-25%. If I said 15% I made a mistake. It's hard to give you a GPA that would put you in that range. I'm not sure if you have TWEN access as part of the SSP, but if you do , look under the Student Services and Registrar tab under class ranks. For the 2005 first year class, the top 25% had 3.1 and above and the top 10% had about 3.4 and above. This is out of 124 day students. This year there was more than that, and I'm guessing your year will have even more than this year. Is it hard? Well, 112 students out of 124 are below 3.4 and about 100 under the 3.1. Keep in mind, the OCIs are for the top firms. These firms want top students and pay to get the top students. This doesn't mean that all other students don't get jobs are interviews. Just not interviews with the top law firms during OCI. I think OCIs are limited, though, to the top firms. So, be in the top 25% of the class if you want to take part in OCI.

2. UDM won't let the professors give any grades they want. To make it competitive, the curve is set anywhere from 2.5-2.8 which means that the average has to be at this number. It sucks. UDMs is much lower than other schools. Nobody will give you a straight answer to why this is. Maybe because they let so many people in, maybe because they want to week out the bottom, I don't know. A 3.0 might put you in the top 25%.

This means there are a lot of grades around the middle and few at the very top and very bottom.

3. Shorecrest Inn really isn't that bad of a walk, even in the winter. You definitely shouldn't stress out too much in terms of safety. You will see bums, but they don't usually bother anyone. I have never heard of any incidents with bums. The only crime I heard of all semester was a kid who had his car broken into after he left it in a parking lot of a restaurant all night. I didn't mapquest Shorecrest, but I would say it is about a 10 minute walk if you walk quickly. It is located east of the school on Jefferson. Get a spot now, because it will fill up quickly. The one next to the school is called Bricktown Parking. To get a spot there, go across the street to Opus One, a restaurant, and pay the office upstairs. Go to the admissions office and they will give you a list of all the potential parking and costs.

4. I have not taken Criminal Law yet. Is the class you are taking going towards your credits? I am assuming not, and that it is more like a trial course? Are you definitely accepted? I know the summer program has special rules, but I can't remember what they are. Just curious. Try to get a feel as to what the professor wants. Some professors who go deep into analysis and give you tons of examples in class probably want a lot of argument and analysis. So, instead of doing a simple IRAC, argue different outcomes based on slight variances but always stick to the facts.

Hope this helps.



Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #25 on: July 07, 2006, 11:04:08 AM »
thanks for all the info, definitely very informative.  See ya in the fall

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2006, 07:49:28 PM »
Sending an application in to UofD.  I am looking forward to visiting the campus and seeing the school.

Hope you are all enjoying the semester.

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #27 on: October 10, 2006, 09:50:10 PM »
Good luck with your application. Where are you now, in Michigan? I am enjoying the semester myself. The work is definitely challenging, especially ALTA. It is their legal writing and research course. It has a national reputation (unlike the school) and is a very good program.

All of my professors are great. The only problem (well, two problems) I had are: 1) Financial Aid, 2) Condition of the school. The school is clean, but very run down. Supposedly, another one is being built somewhere - or some additions. Hearing different things, but that would be wonderful if it were true. The building is old. And no one knows what the school is doing with the money.

Financial aid is a sloppy, disorganized, painfully slow process. For most, not all. The woman who does the financial aid is ridiculously rude considering it is their office that causes the majority of the problems. They lose papers,. they are horrible as far as communication and updates go, and they are clueless. It was one of the most frustrating experiences I have ever had in my entire education. The school promises to hire a second administrator.

The students are friendly. The staff (other than financial aid) is friendly. You will have a wonderful experience. The professors are great. I already said that, but it is worth repeating. Many have very impressive backgrounds, and they have hired a good number of new profiessors with equally impressive backgrounds. The dean is friendly. He has been there only a few years and he is working to do great things for the school. That is the pitch, anyway. Good luck. What other schools are you applying to?

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2006, 01:32:13 PM »
I am currently working/living in California, but I am from PA.  I like Michigan and think that it would be a great place to practice.  Hopefully I will be out to Detroit to take in the school first-hand. 

I am also applying to Widener, Indiana U @ Indianapolis, Michigan State, Drexel ,Duquesne & Loyola NO.  I am looking forward to going back to the Midwest or northeast.  It will be a nice change of pace, I have been in CA for 4 years. 

Thanks for the info on the school.  It is one of my top choices because it is in a metropolitan area and I hear that summer jobs are available if you do well academically.

Keep me posted as the semester continues.  I would like to hear more about the school.

Re: UDM fall 2006???
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2006, 04:03:55 AM »
UDM is unfortunate in many respects, because the school certainly has a good in-state reputation. But Wayne is really the in-state muscle (Michigan grads have it made, obviously,  so they tend to leave for NY).

 Personally, I would reconsider attending any law school in MI apart from UM or maybe Wayne and MSU (and primarily the former). One of the reasons I decided against staying in MI was the economy, which is horrifying (in all fairness, weather was also a major concern). But of course it depends on where you want to practice and what you want to do.

 I would  really consider IU-Indy, if you are admitted. Research the legal market and see what you come up with.