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Author Topic: poor lawyers  (Read 48811 times)

lawstudent2011

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #240 on: February 22, 2011, 09:31:38 PM »
flame.

How come I've never met a poor lawyer .. they all seem to be rich .. yet some people here say that many lawyers dont really make much money ??

Prends Garde à Toi!

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #241 on: February 26, 2011, 10:37:10 PM »

"The Visit of the Old Lady" is a 1956 tragicomedy by the Swiss dramatist Friedrich Dürrenmatt. The location of the drama is Gúllen, a once flourishing small town that lost its ancient bloom when its industrial plants closed down and business took a plunge. The forgotten, poverty-stricken inhabitants of Gúllen are by now used to a modest life, spending the major part of their days reminiscing about better times, until one day the arrival of the "Old Lady" alters the Gúlleners' existence at a stroke. Claire Zachanassian, a native of Gúllen whose profitable marriages to oil magnates, artists and industrialists have made her extremely rich, and her strange court consisting of two blind servants, two former gangsters, a butler and Husband Number 7, are met with sincere enthusiasm by the citizens of Gúllen at the railway station. And they are not disappointed. Claire promises to donate a billion to the township on one condition - Ill, a merchant of Gúllen, must be killed. In years gone by, Ill had a love affair with Claire. Claire became pregnant and claimed that Ill was the father. But with the help of two friends - now her two blind servants - Ill was able to escape responsibility.



Claire had to leave Gúllen and live as a prostitute, until she met her first rich husband. The stipulated murder is a planned revenge against Ill and the Gúllen inhabitants. In the course of time, Claire has acquired the industrial plants and the entire town, in order to ruin them. The first reaction of the Gúllen citizens is water-tight solidarity with Ill, but gradually it begins to spring leaks. Their opinions change from "poor soul, guilty of a childhood misdemeanor" to "irresponsible, immoral evil-doer". At the same time, the people of Gúllen indulge in new, luxury goods — on credit — represented by new, yellow shoes, which are soon worn by all citizens, including even police officers and the mayor. Even his own family are not spared the attraction of increasing lucre. His wife buys a fur coat, his son a car, and his daughter takes lessons in tennis. Only the teacher evokes the humanist tradition, and attempts, at first timidly, to interpose himself before the death sentence that has, by now, come to be seen as immutable. In the end, even Ill accepts his fate. In a climactic town gathering, Ill receives his sentence, which is immediately carried out by the people of Gúllen.

The fundamental underlying point of the play is that money can allure people's minds, especially those weakly determined. It also notices how money creates the power to control the world around. As the arrival of Claire Zachanassian shows, the promise of money can lead people to hate and even murder. It can pervert the course of justice, and even turn the local teacher, who is one of the few who manage to warn Alfred Ill of his impending doom. The teacher is a self-declared humanist, and his moral collapse, as well as that of the priest, demonstrates the power of money to overcome both religious and secular morality. It suggests that greed can turn anyone.The usage of this theme also develops around the main idea of "money-hungry".


A very interesting post, metanoia - they do not say in vain, "money is root of all evil."


Awesome on your part to point us to metanoia's post, sheverdnaze -- the Durrenmatt's play is indeed brilliant.

We'd be lucky to have posters like you on this forum, ones that make meaningful contributions to the threads.

MikePing

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #242 on: February 27, 2011, 12:38:59 PM »
Spam tastes good!

folate

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #243 on: April 25, 2011, 03:10:55 PM »

If the bank if not licensed by the state, they could be doing very unpleasant (and possibly illegal) things with the sperm deposits.


When I was working as a paralegal for a law firm we'd deal with a lot of RESEARCH CONSENT FORMS
in relation to Sperm Donation for Stem Cell Research. They're presented to the men donating sperm in order to create embryos for human embryonic stem cell research projects. Embryonic stem cells can be found in embryos around the 5th day of development. These stem cells have the unique ability to turn into any kind of specialized human cell, such as liver cells, heart cells, pancreatic cells, or nerve cells. For this reason, embryonic stem cells can be used to study, and possibly one day help treat, diseases or injuries that have caused patients' specialized cells to die or become damaged – diseases and injuries such as Parkinson’s disease, heart disease, diabetes, and spinal cord injury.

The new human embryonic stem cells from embryos are created with the sperm through androgenesis. (Androgenesis is the process by which a sperm cell is stimulated to begin going through the very early stages of human development. Stem cells that arise from andogenesis would be genetically matched to the person who provided the sperm). In such cases, none of the sperm you donate is used to produce a baby or a pregnancy. And no embryos created from your sperm will be allowed to develop for more than a total of 14 days after they have been created through the union of sperm and egg; created through androgenesis. If any of the resulting embryos are frozen, then the time that they are frozen is not counted as part of the 14 day limit. Researchers only use your sperm to create embryos from which they attempt to get stem cells before the 14 day limit. The resulting research embryos are destroyed during the stem cell collection process. Usually, there is no guarantee that embryos will be successfully created from your sperm; and there is no guarantee that researchers will be able to get stem cells from any resulting embryos. Researchers routinely discard as medical waste any sperm or embryos they do not use for this research project. 

It is likely that the collected embryonic stem cells will be stored for many years. Embryonic stem cells have the ability to self-renew indefinitely, and they are likely to be used by researchers at other institutions and for many other research purposes. One possible research use of these stored stem cells might involve changing some of their genes. Another possible research use might be to study some of the stem cells by placing them into laboratory animals. In addition, the stored stem cells might be used in the future for new research related to human stem cell transplantation. These are just 3 common examples of what might happen to the stored stem cells. But there are many other future possible research uses that are simply unknown at this time. You will have no say as to which institutions or researchers may share the stem cells made from the embryos that were created using your sperm. If stem cell transplantation studies are developed in the future, you will have no say as to who may be a transplant recipient of the collected stem cells, except in the case of autologous transplantation after androgenesis.


This is becoming indeed a problem in many states - I guess it'll continue to be an issue during the 2012 elections.

B a i k a l

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #244 on: July 31, 2011, 02:46:03 PM »

A common saying is that "money is the root of evil." My people-experience has proven otherwise. Money can't cripple confidence, can't snuff creativity, and can't kill love near as efficiently or quickly as reticence can. If such a money v. reticence race were run, I would place every spare nickel on that "dark horse" and be confident of winning. What's not said destroys more people than money does, I've found.


Hahaha - you're so funny, Savvy! I know what ya mean ;)


many, I guess the question appears to be: what do you do when what's "not said" when being said turns out to destroy way, way more people than money does? ;)


Would would you get if you combined an emotional vagabond, a dyed-in-the-wool non-conformist and a genius? An outspoken employee garbed in the latest fringe fashion... hoot couture they'd call it, who insults the company president on principle and cares not one whit; who keeps the office in stitches with his barbed wit and comedic brilliance; and who could, given the right inspiration and the VP's corner office (and a midi studio), come up with an idea that could place your company on the stock exchange by noon tomorrow. That's the kind of person they're talking about, I guess. He will do things, say things, and wear things others wouldn't, for fear of ridicule or reprisal. His outrageous actions and sensuous being affords others an opportunity to experience uninhibited and unabashed freedom, vicariously.


Wow - that's a very interesting post, search engine! Is it some kind of specific profile?

L.B.

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #245 on: November 15, 2011, 09:18:29 PM »
In regard to this thread's topic, I'd make these comments: While legal profession, traditionally has been elite-exclusion and lawyers as known to be "bottom feeders" because of their being relatively unproductive, charging exorbitant rates, and leaching off of the poor, it is also a fact that it is relatively easy to become an attorney in US With a ridiculously high bar passage rate, its not too elite-exclusive. In other countries the lawyers ARE elites. In US their prestige is relatively weak.

This is true of doctors too. Doctors are elites. They leach off the poor. So are CEOs and other high paying jobs. Look, the imperative that doctors and lawyers (the two professions that people think are special and that they are bound by extra moral duties) need to realize that there job is NOT that special. It's just a job. These jobs have a board and a strict rule of conduct but... they don't have a special moral duty that are unique to them. Just get your money, man!

Interesting post, but can you expand a bit?
Why do psychics have to ask you for your name?

appropriate

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Re: From Homo Oeconomicus to Homo Sexualis
« Reply #246 on: December 03, 2011, 01:59:29 AM »

There is nothing wrong with making money. But money can become the tail that wags the dog. Karl Llewellyn's observations of some 40 years ago, on lawyers and money, still ring true. He observed "a brand of lawyer for whom law is making of a livelihood, a competence, a fortune. Law offers means to live, to get ahead. It is so viewed. Such men give their whole selves to it, in this aspect. Coin is their reward. Coin makes it possible to live. Coin is success, coin is prestige, and coin is power. Such lawyers, I take it, reflect rather adequately the standards of our civilization. They have perceived the mainspring of a money economy. They follow single-heartedly on their perception. Coin is, in this society, the measure of a man."


Freud argued that feces, as matter that comes from within oneself and then becomes matter outside and thus independent Of oneself, is recognized by the child as his "creation." In this recognition, the child frequently uses feces for love, offering it up as a gift to those for whom he cares. As something which he makes and which becomes his own (and is not bestowed on him externally), the child perceives of feces as personal property that defines independence. The child also recognizes that this substance, often problematically received by the world, can be used aggressively, as a weapon. Thus a child's sense of mastery, power, and defiance derives initially from manipulation of excrement.

Freud explained that as one evolves out of the stages of infant sexuality, the values attributed to feces are reattached through sublimation to other non-bodily objects. According to Freud, anal erotism moves from feces to money.

Freud elaborated the notion that the emergence of money economy is rooted in the "anal" phase of sexuality. The child's attitude toward excretion thus adumbrated its later attitude toward possessions. Since fecal matter was the first object created by the infant which could be alienated from it in exchange for others' praise, an anal retentive character prefigured excessive parsimony, an anal expulsive character excessive improvidence. Feces itself became the prototype for gold, a hypothesis Freud defended by referring to cross-linguistic data suggesting a connection between "filthy lucre" and precious metal.


Freud himself who was to declare to Fliess in a letter dated 16 January 1898, that money did not form the object of an infantile wish which is why, as the well-known saying puts it, money proves incapable of "making one happy" as an adult. Yet, it can nevertheless give the impression of doing so, to the extent that it is capable as we know from Freudian metapsychology of functioning as the unconscious substitute and equivalent for any "object" whatsoever that is invested by the libido of the subject, be this oral, phallic or, especially, anal. [...]

On a material level, faeces represent for children their first possessions of value. Indeed, if children tend at first, roughly between the ages of 2 and 3, to take an auto-erotic pleasure in defecating (the first phase of the anal stage), they subsequently discover, around the age of 3 or 4, that they can obtain a more intense excitation by holding back their stool (the second phase of the anal stage). This is the source of the pleasure adults take in holding onto money, valuable objects or, yet again, time (as shown by the character-traits of avarice and parsimony, as well as the pleasure of hoarding or saving), in accordance with the equation of money and excrement. [...]

[...] In the most extreme case, according to the psycho-analytical argument that is often put forward, an overly active or precocious repression of the child's psychosexual development during the anal stage -- especially at the moment of toilet training -- can lead to the development, in later life, of a veritable obsessional (or, as it was sometimes called, anal) neurosis. Since the pathbreaking work of Oskar Pfister on the psychical structure of classical capitalism and the financial mind, an entire current of thought (Reich, Fromm, etc.) has endeavored to locate within the capitalist system the indices of a collective obsessional neurotic syndrome. Just as the child is under the illusion of the omnipotence of his or her excrements, so the capitalist would tend to believe that his or her money gives him or her the power -- and, above all, the right -- to do whatever he or she so desires.


So basically,

money = * & ^ %
capitalism = anal


Wow - it's unbelievable how much you learn on these boards!

a d m i n i s t r a t o r

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Re: poor lawyers
« Reply #247 on: December 03, 2011, 04:21:06 AM »

^^^ That was a stupid article. All of the people he cited were women who took the age-old "drop out for kids/life balance" route. Also, his other argument is seemingly "being a lawyer sucks and doesn't let you be a talent agent or something cool." Yeah, I used to have dreams of being something cool when I was little, too.

I bet it's 10x harder to make a real living as a talent agent than as a lawyer, pal.

All of these people always complain about how "hard" and unfulfulling the law can be. I guess they'd be happier by default if they were broke and working in some stupid "creative industry." That doesn't apply to people with real jobs.

Being a truck driver is long, miserable work too. By the logic of this article, if truck drivers don't like it, they should just go into a field that's more "fun."

 ::)

Sorry, but I'm really sick of people bitching about the legal profession. We've all heard the gripes. If you are unhappy, leave. If you have doubts about working in the law, then don't become a lawyer. Lawyers who are unhappy should realize that most jobs blow and are soul-sucking. Since when did everyone fall under the illusion that we're all entitled to have super-fun jobs and work at the Googleplex?


@ # ! * you, Talk! Lawyers aren't supposed to have jobs that suck as much as truck drivers' and the like - what the h e l l are you talking about?!

kaps

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Re: From Homo Oeconomicus to Homo Sexualis
« Reply #248 on: December 05, 2011, 05:43:12 AM »

Freud himself who was to declare to Fliess in a letter dated 16 January 1898, that money did not form the object of an infantile wish which is why, as the well-known saying puts it, money proves incapable of "making one happy" as an adult. Yet, it can nevertheless give the impression of doing so, to the extent that it is capable as we know from Freudian metapsychology of functioning as the unconscious substitute and equivalent for any "object" whatsoever that is invested by the libido of the subject, be this oral, phallic or, especially, anal. [...]

On a material level, faeces represent for children their first possessions of value. Indeed, if children tend at first, roughly between the ages of 2 and 3, to take an auto-erotic pleasure in defecating (the first phase of the anal stage), they subsequently discover, around the age of 3 or 4, that they can obtain a more intense excitation by holding back their stool (the second phase of the anal stage). This is the source of the pleasure adults take in holding onto money, valuable objects or, yet again, time (as shown by the character-traits of avarice and parsimony, as well as the pleasure of hoarding or saving), in accordance with the equation of money and excrement. [...]

[...] In the most extreme case, according to the psycho-analytical argument that is often put forward, an overly active or precocious repression of the child's psychosexual development during the anal stage -- especially at the moment of toilet training -- can lead to the development, in later life, of a veritable obsessional (or, as it was sometimes called, anal) neurosis. Since the pathbreaking work of Oskar Pfister on the psychical structure of classical capitalism and the financial mind, an entire current of thought (Reich, Fromm, etc.) has endeavored to locate within the capitalist system the indices of a collective obsessional neurotic syndrome. Just as the child is under the illusion of the omnipotence of his or her excrements, so the capitalist would tend to believe that his or her money gives him or her the power -- and, above all, the right -- to do whatever he or she so desires.


So basically,

money = * & ^ %
capitalism = anal


Wow - it's unbelievable how much you learn on these boards!


For the sake of truth, there's more to the story, appropriate! When anality becomes a perversion in an individual it can result in a danger to that individual, and as a cultural phenomenon, to humanity. There is a clearly defined link between the anal-sadistic phase of sexuality and cruelty. An "instinct of cruelty" appears in Freud's "Three Essays on the Theory of Sexuality," stating that there is an intimate connection between cruelty and the sexual instinct; whether active or passive, it also stems from the drive for mastery. Like mastery, cruelty involves the use of the object simply as a means of satisfaction. Sadism involves a pleasure derived from the object's suffering. The deriving of sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.

After the introduction of the death drive in 1920, the drive for cruelty gave way to the "destructive drive," understood as an external deflection of the death drive and described as aggressive when directed at objects. If it is taken up by the ego, the ego itself becomes cruel or sadistic. The ego then risks not only losing the object's love but also being subjected to the reprimands of the Superego. This agency, which equates with moral conscience, can demonstrate an extreme cruelty, according to the need for aggression aroused by present/past frustrations. Rebellious by nature towards what is nevertheless the necessary process of civilization, the human being is always able to display a "cruel aggressiveness" if circumstances allow it.

Contempt, indifference towards the object, cruelty, as well as false emblems of masculinity, faceless bureaucracy, violence, torture, the jackboot and the whip. Freud described the psychosexual development of the child, how he progresses from the anal-sadistic phase to the phallic (genital) one, at the end of which the Oedipus complex finds resolution. It is the smashing/destruction, a developmental arrest at the anal-sadistic phase, as opposed to resolution of the Oedipus complex, that characterizes Western culture.