New York Law

[LoverOfWomen]

Happiness, prestige, and even amount of spending money I have, is not fact moron. It is in the eye of the beholder. That is what everyone is trying to say. That is ok though, keep on thinking that the status of your school, job, and money you have is all that matters in life. Man, I feel bad for you at this point.

I can see what Ruskin saw in commoners like you.  The cliched "eye of the beholder" statement is nevertheless quite profound.  Unfortunately, it applies more precisely to beauty and to truly appreciate beauty, you must necessarily have wealth.  Wealth provides the leisure of contemplation which can appreciably improve the quality of one's life.  I'm sorry, but one's "school, job, and money" do matter--not ends in themselves, of course--but as a means to a more fulfilling life.

[lipper]

Lover - where are you from?

[Leaf2001br]

Did you just call someone a "commoner"?

Freaking awesome.  This just gets better all the time. I have never seen someone try as hard to compensate as you.  You are as detached from reality as they come.  Like the above poster I am becoming fascinated with you.  Please tell  us about yourself:

Play any sports?  Favorite countries visited?  What are your friends like?  Do you have friends?  Any meaningful relationships with real live flesh and blood people?  Were you abused?  What was high school like?  Where do you hang out?  Do you masturbate a lot?  Most embarrassing moment?  One true love?  Favorite music?  Why in hell would you want to spend time in the Hamptons?  Do you have a website?  Do you play an instrument?  Why do you like this message board SO much when no one likes you (I'll give you the benefit of understatement here)?  What do you do with the fraction of your day left over after bickering with strangers on the internet (and porn)?

Please share.

[Leaf2001br]

Oh come on, you wily Lover Of Women, you.  It's been five minutes.  Respond already!  Are you taking a porn break?  Engaging in your richly rewarding life outside of this message board?  No, on second thought I guess that wouldn't be mathematically possible would it?  Well nevermind about the having a life bit, that might have been a bit of a stretch.  Just hurry back and placate my curiosity or I'll have to do something drastic like work on an outline.

[LoverOfWomen]

Did you just call someone a "commoner"?

Freaking awesome.  This just gets better all the time. I have never seen someone try as hard to compensate as you.  You are as detached from reality as they come.  Like the above poster I am becoming fascinated with you.  Please tell  us about yourself:

Play any sports?  Favorite countries visited?  What are your friends like?  Do you have friends?  Any meaningful relationships with real live flesh and blood people?  Were you abused?  What was high school like?  Where do you hang out?  Do you masturbate a lot?  Most embarrassing moment?  One true love?  Favorite music?  Why in hell would you want to spend time in the Hamptons?  Do you have a website?  Do you play an instrument?  Why do you like this message board SO much when no one likes you (I'll give you the benefit of understatement here)?  What do you do with the fraction of your day left over after bickering with strangers on the internet (and porn)?

Please share.

I think you're taking an unhealthy interest in me, but I'll amuse you.

I play tennis and golf.  My favorite country is the U.K.; I'm really quite the Anglophile.  Most of my closest friends are from college and most of them share my aesthetic philosophy.  I've only been occasionally abused by the odd philistine who doesn't know Monet from Manet.  I attended a dull, moralistic prep school.  I'm not telling you where I hang out.  I masturbate from time to time.  My most embarrassing moment was listening to some old bag talk about her cancer; she was hideous and it was distressing to see something so ugly.  "One true love" is a ridiculously bourgeoise cliche; I don't believe in restricting love or any other emotion.  I find Wagner's opera divine.  The Hamptons are an excellent place for leisure and leisure is the highest human good.  I find the creatures here amusing.  In my remaining time, I usually sleep, dabble with paints, go for walks, have wonderful conversations, constantly indulge beauty and pleasure, and on occasion, complete some trivial assignment.

Oh come on, you wily Lover Of Women, you.  It's been five minutes.  Respond already!  Are you taking a porn break?  Engaging in your richly rewarding life outside of this message board?  No, on second thought I guess that wouldn't be mathematically possible would it?  Well nevermind about the having a life bit, that might have been a bit of a stretch.  Just hurry back and placate my curiosity or I'll have to do something drastic like work on an outline.

What would you know about the "mathematically possible"?  I'm no mathematician, but I don't think you are either.

And why are you working on an outline?  Organizing information is simple and tedious.

[T. Durden]

I think this thread could benefit with some commentary regarding biglaw. A biglaw associate position is by means some sort of golden ticket to perpetual happiness and career sucess within the legal profession - instead biglaw lawyers are described as the single most unhappy group of workers within the generally malcontent American workforce. When presented with anonymous surveys, biglaw lawyers from across the country answered resoundingly (over 50%) that they regretted their decisions to enter the field of the law and now wished that they could change their careers entirely. Over half (within biglaw) responded that if given the choice again, given what they know now, they would never have gone to law school in the first place. Over a third of lawyers (in general) are alcoholic, depression and various other mental disorders are manifested within the profession 2 to 3 times that which is seen within normal society (it is uncertain as to whether the profession exacerbates whatever underlying latent propensity a certain individual might have or that the profession attracts those with these disorders) - the divorce rate amongst biglaw lawyers is the highest in the nation - higher than those amongst NAVY SEAL units, which I personally find unbelievable, given that seals are off six months at a time slitting throats in some unheard of country on the other side of the globe - those within big law complain of "golden handcuffs", i.e. the money in biglaw is virtually unparalleled anywhere else in the profession, in order to maintain a certain lifestyle that is expected of the attorney by family members the attorney (and to meet whatever financial obligations which have been taken up by the attorney) the attorney is virtually "locked" into the big law mold by financial pressures - the average partnership track is now 11 years, which, given the attrition rates, means that only an incredibly small percentage of all first associates ever make to partner status (less than 1% now) - simply stated biglaw is no guaranteed ticket to legal succcess, or to "mover and shaker" status

Last week I went to a reception for a biglaw firm here in DC. The people looked exactly as you'd expect workaholics to look like: tired, pale, pudgy, generally unhealthy - when asked what they did outside of work for fun, I received several chuckles and confused looks. They have a gym at the firm, they have a bar at the firm, they have dinner at the firm - life is the firm. When asked about the merits of working in-house, the attorneys mocked their in-house equivalents, openly expressing disdain for the fact that they everyone left around 5:30. These are some of the realities of the profession that we are goign to become invovled with. Certainly if you want to get ahead in this country you have to work hard. I'm not contesting that idea - but the thought of billing 2100-2400 hours for 10  years so that I may make "partner" and thus become ever more "successful" sounds like a dangerous mode of living - I like to think that I my career motivation lie elsewhere.

All of this being said, biglaw positions certainly pay well and undoubtedly open doors. There is a reason that the nation's top law students flock to DC and NY every summer to partake in the recruitment programs offered by these firms. I for one plan on working at one of these firms for several years, hopefully no more than 3, but realistically around 5, so that I may 1) pay off my HUGE student loan debt, 2) build the necessary resume credentials for a transfer into in-house work and 3) learn about the legal profession in a fast-paced,  hard-working environment. I think of it as something akin to residency in medicine. Work like a slave for several years, learn how to be a professional, and move on to something else where the mode of living is a little more reasonable.

But this idea that attending a T20 is a ticket to biglaw which is then some sort of magic carpet ride to the land of happiness and pink cotton candy is completely wrong - the majority of those involved in biglaw hate their lives, their jobs, and their prospects. This is a sad reality of our profession. Those of us who are headed for biglaw need to be wary of these pitfalls and need to be certain that we don't fall victim to the "golden handcuffs"....       

[abclaw]

My most embarrassing moment was listening to some old bag talk about her cancer; she was hideous and it was distressing to see something so ugly. 

He's obviously a sociopath.

[RootBrewskies]

You're not counting time as an opportunity cost.  If you earn a full ride at a T3/4, you could have gone to better school with a more challenging program instead of evading it.  What a waste of time and talent.

If you are an unambitious loser who is interested in law, go be a paralegal.  Don't complain about high standards (which is what I am arguing for).  Law should be the purview of movers and shakers, not a clearinghouse for timid milquetoast clerks who just want to live "comfortably."
[/quote]


who says one school is more challenging than another?  if anything ive heard about ivy's having inflated grades.  grads have told me, without a doubt the most difficult part of harvard is getting in. 

i know alot of grads from ivy's and top schools all around and the smartest guy ive ever met went to wvu. 

[exponential]

[removed]

[Dip827]

Already admitted by NYLS, but I'm leaning towards St. John's, although I've heard not-so-good things about the latter ..

i've actually heard a lot of good things about st. johns, and i would go there over NYLS.