New York Law

[ray7]

Oh comeone, follow the argument please. You are claiming that tier 3 students are failures and those who do not shoot for big law are unambitious losers. I say this is false and have hard evidence to back it up. You just seem to run your mouth without anything to back it up. I never said that tier 3 schools are producing inferior students. I simply stated it is a slightly easier road for tier 1 students due to reputation of the institution. Perhaps your reading comprehension schools aren't up to par. Might want to work on that.   

[LoverOfWomen]

Oh comeone, follow the argument please. You are claiming that tier 3 students are failures and those who do not shoot for big law are unambitious losers. I say this is false and have hard evidence to back it up. You just seem to run your mouth without anything to back it up. I never said that tier 3 schools are producing inferior students. I simply stated it is a slightly easier road for tier 1 students due to reputation of the institution. Perhaps your reading comprehension schools aren't up to par. Might want to work on that.   

WHAT HARD EVIDENCE?

They are "employed" months after graduation?  So what?  Most people with a bachelor's degree can get a job shoveling fries at Mickey D's. 

A friend of yours has a really successful law firm where the only bad litigator is some UPenn nerd?  Big deal.  Anecdotes aren't evidence, and besides, I already conceded that there are exceptional[/b] cases.  I'm sure if you dropped Clarence Darrow in a T3 school, he'd still be successful.  But face it--T3/4 students are those who have basically flunked all metrics and can't get into a better school OR inexplicably avoid the challenge (don't even give me "but they got a full ride" because anyone in their right mind would count the other opportunity costs as well). 

A good portion of the graduating class of a T3 school can't even pass the bar.  That means they can't even earn the minimum qualification to practice law in that state.  Show me how many successful lawyers don't pass their bar after dumping money into a law school degree.  This doesn't even count the significant drop-out rate at toilets like Cooley.

Beyond this, you and I have a very simple disagreeement over what constitutes "success" in a field.  You seem to think that continued mediocre performance should be commended.  I don't.  Law is not like medicine--it is a hierarchical profession where there are clear leaders (t6, maybe t14) and clear losers (most T3/4 grads).

The prestige of lawyers has been declining for decades, as measured by the Harris Poll.  That isn't because of top-flight lawyers like John Roberts or Sam Alito.  It's because most lawyers people meet are TTT ambulance chasers who presume to think they are in the same class as Roberts/Alito thanks to some TTT J.D. degree.

[daddy loves you too]

absolutely. An a-hole as well as VERY, VERY narrow-minded.

VERY, VERY focused and VERY, VERY rich as well.

[LoverOfWomen]

Swell moderation policy. 

Obviously pictures of women would be prohibited by the complaining misogynists. 

[ray7]

It's really unfortunate you feel tier 3 grads are bringing down the prestige of the profession. There are many tier 3 grads who go on to be very successful and do alot of good. My hard evidence are employment rates and sites like martindale that show many tier 3 law grads with fine jobs. Also, you need stop with this flipping burgers at mcdonald's thing you keep bringing up. It's rediculous you keep using that in your argument. It doesn't happen. You are clearly making that up.

However, yes, I do believe your definition of success conflicts with the next person's definition of success. While you are probably comparing lower paying jobs in the legal profession to flipping burger at mcdonald's, many people who have these jobs sincerely, enjoy their work. Some people are very content with these positions, while others use it as a stepping stone until they make their next career move and go forward. After a certain number of years, what "class" you are in is defined by your success in the field and work experience. Sorry to burst your bubble.

[LoverOfWomen]

It's really unfortunate you feel tier 3 grads are bringing down the prestige of the profession. There are many tier 3 grads who go on to be very successful and do alot of good. My hard evidence are employment rates and sites like martindale that show many tier 3 law grads with fine jobs. Also, you need stop with this flipping burgers at mcdonald's thing you keep bringing up. It's rediculous you keep using that in your argument. It doesn't happen. You are clearly making that up.

It does happen.  When I was working over 1L summer at a biglaw office, an associate there was talking about how embarrassed he felt to run into a guy he knew (in college).  The guy went to a T4 and couldn't find a job afterwards.

If you want to settle for less and talk about TTT jobs being "fine", that's your call.  I prefer not to trump up unambitious losers.

However, yes, I do believe your definition of success conflicts with the next person's definition of success. While you are probably comparing lower paying jobs in the legal profession to flipping burger at mcdonald's, many people who have these jobs sincerely, enjoy their work. Some people are very content with these positions, while others use it as a stepping stone until they make their next career move and go forward. After a certain number of years, what "class" you are in is defined by your success in the field and work experience. Sorry to burst your bubble.

Contentment has nothing to do with success.  I've met content janitors.  It doesn't make toilet-scrubbing prestigious.

[T. Durden]

i'm a GT 1L who is blowing town for the summer and have just rented my apartment out to a 2L SA in DC

in response to my ad for sublet i received close to 20 responses

i was *blown away* by pedigree of law student who is able to find work in DC over the summer

of the 20 responses that i received, ONE was from outside of the T14 (Tulane). The remaining 19: several stanfords, 4 or 5 yales, 3 or 4 harvards, dukes, uvas, boalts, NYUs, etc.

love him or hate him - loverofwomen is correct to a certain extent. at least in the beginning stages, this profession is one built upon prestige and reputation. i had no idea it was so severe until i put this little ad up....

[LoverOfWomen]

i'm a GT 1L who is blowing town for the summer and have just rented my apartment out to a 2L SA in DC

in response to my ad for sublet i received close to 20 responses

i was *blown away* by pedigree of law student who is able to find work in DC over the summer

of the 20 responses that i received, ONE was from outside of the T14 (Tulane). The remaining 19: several stanfords, 4 or 5 yales, 3 or 4 harvards, dukes, uvas, boalts, NYUs, etc.

love him or hate him - loverofwomen is correct to a certain extent. at least in the beginning stages, this profession is one built upon prestige and reputation. i had no idea it was so severe until i put this little ad up....

Thank you.  The Tulane grad might also have benefitted from the general post-Katrina diaspora. 

[T. Durden]

3 more today: 2 NYUs and a UMich

[ray7]

Just because these people were able to find work in Washington DC does not mean that tier 3/tier 4 grads cannot find work. This does not defend loverofwomen's argument.