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Author Topic: My Savior Duckasouras  (Read 10746 times)

sdlaw

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2006, 03:41:13 PM »
texas I have to question your logic, the non Aba schools tend to make the legal field more of a joke then an honorable degree.  By your posts I see your at a T3 (not that impressive, yet WAY more impressive than a non-aba).  I do not get why you encourage people to continue their legal education online, non aba schools are not real law schools and to defend them makes no sense.  I agree you should make your own choice as to what education to get but a law degree is not a hobby and Aloha737 and you make it seem like it is.

Texas

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #71 on: February 20, 2006, 06:10:54 PM »
texas I have to question your logic, the non Aba schools tend to make the legal field more of a joke then an honorable degree.  By your posts I see your at a T3 (not that impressive, yet WAY more impressive than a non-aba).  I do not get why you encourage people to continue their legal education online, non aba schools are not real law schools and to defend them makes no sense.  I agree you should make your own choice as to what education to get but a law degree is not a hobby and Aloha737 and you make it seem like it is.

I don't think that I've ever said that DL is the way to go...but there are some circumstances where a person may choose that option to enrich themselves, either personally or professionally.

In my case, I have a masters degree that was completed via DL. Now, this was a research degree, so I probably had more contact (almost daily by email) with my supervisor than I would have had in a regular setting. But the point is, it is fully accredited, and because of that work I have now been able to publish 2 articles in peer-reviewed journals. This in turn may be opening the doors to some T14 schools that I am trying to transfer into.

Now with law, DL is probably the worst choice available to 99% of the people that want a law degree...but for that 1% it might be the ideal choice (for whatever their reasons). I just think that while it is good to point out the limitations of DL, once someone has weighed that, there is no reason to harass them because you don't like their decision.

I know that thousands of people will be graduating from ABA schools this year, ranked in the bottom 1/4 of their class, and with 100-150K in debt...to me they all made the wrong choice (except for maybe those in the T14 schools). They are going to have crappy jobs, and be saddled with a tremendous debt load for years to come. I truly think that the majority of them will be miserable...but it was their choice to make.

I chose instead to take the free ride at a T3 to make sure I would survive - and now that I'm in the top 5%, I am weighing transferring up. Others might think that I was foolish not to attend a T1 school first...and in retrospect, maybe they would be right, but at my age, I couldn't risk that much debt without a strong class ranking, and that just wasn't guaranteed.

We all have to make decisions based on where we are, and where we want to go. I can't even remember what Aloha's reasons were, but what is important is that he has them. There's no point in degrading that decision simply because non-traditional law schools aren't as good traditional ones....

aloha737pilot

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #72 on: February 21, 2006, 05:28:36 AM »
the non Aba schools tend to make the legal field more of a joke then an honorable degree.  By your posts I see your(sic) at a T3 (not that impressive, yet WAY more impressive than a non-aba). 

If the "less than acceptable" law schools make a joke of the legal field, who is it that is laughing? Are you laughing? I am not laughing. Is the general public laughing, the ones who don't know their legal elbow from a hole in the ground? No one is laughing, it is just you and people like you who continue the elitist attitude as evidenced by your remark to Texas about his so called "not that impressive" T3 school attendance.

"Law schools channel their students into jobs in the hierarchy of the bar according to their own standing in the hierarchy of schools. Students confronted with the choice of what to do after they graduate experience themselves as largely helpless: they have no "real" alternative to taking a job in one of the firms that customarily hire from their school. Partly, faculties generate this sense of student helplessness by propagating myths about the character of the different kinds of practice. They extol the forms that are accessible to their students; they subtly denigrate or express envy about the jobs that will be beyond their student's reach; they dismiss as ethically and socially suspect the jobs their students won't have to take." Duncan Kennedy, Carter Professor of General Jurisprudence, Harvard University, from "The Politics of Law".

Having read many articles and books over the last few months I can see the legal field is no different than any other. It attracts many people who are suitable to the field and many who are not. It is a prestigious and honorable calling that is attractive to many people for many reasons. I think I am more attracted to the knowledge that legal study will provide me in the areas of my life that I will need this legal knowledge. If my desire to study law, online, causes a problem in someone elses legal career I could care less. If your T1 legal education and your "LA Law" big law job is affected by me studying law online, then give me a call at 1-800-382-5633.



 


Wild Jack Maverick

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #73 on: February 22, 2006, 08:31:37 AM »


It is a prestigious and honorable calling that is attractive to many people for many reasons.
 

I agree. I was wondering if anyone else felt the same way.
"I enjoy being in school. I've learned so much already, with taking economics and law, and I have marketing and statistics coming up next."

DanteHicks

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #74 on: February 22, 2006, 12:12:32 PM »
Here's something from one of my previous posts (with some slight modifications to fit this thread)...

Here's some factors to consider.

1) The ABA is basically a monopoly or bears some semblance of a organized union.  The "either yer with us or against us" is the golden rule here.  This machine has been oiled for quite some time and is difficult to stop.  However, most things do not remain stagnant too long.  This too will break, perhaps not in our life time, but it will break.  Can you imagine the pissed off people if ABA accreditation went the way of the dodo?  Law profs seeking tenure who spew legal philosophy pedagogy from their high towers would be forced to practice law somewhere...and this scares them.  Long time honored notions of law ivy league schools would female dog and moan and certain politicians' ears would be ringing.

2) Some contend that a legal education from a distance learning and/or law night school is subpar from any ABA university law program.  This is a myth.  If one compares the curriculum between programs you would find that the same core courses are there as well as most of the electives.  The law taught in an ABA school is not different.  An opinion in an ABA school's casebook reads the same at the non-ABA school.  In fact the same casebooks/hornbooks are basically used at either school.  Con law doesn't change if you go to a non-ABA school, nor do Torts, etc.  The workload is not lessened.  In some instances it's worse than ABA schools.  In the brock n' mortar night schools...the socratic method is used extensively and there are constant writing assignements.

3) You will find the courses taught at non-ABA schools are taught by practicing (or retired) lawyers, law clerks, judges, etc.  Those who work in the profession and know how the law is applied in real life.  You may find those in ABA schools are professors whose knowledge of law is pure academic.  If you think it's just a cliche that those who can't practice law teach law...you may want to reconsider.  Of course some of this may be generalizing and I'm sure there are the exceptions...but this cannot be ignored either.  Most people know that law school does not actually prepare you to practice law in real life; merely a golden ticket to the bar exam.  What may be worth mentioning however is one in a non-ABA school may get a more practical education on law.  It is not uncommon for non-ABA grads to be able to open a solo practice right out of law school.

4) ABA and non-ABA grads will take the same bar exam in their respective states.  This is the equalizer.  For those who wish to practice law after law school (yes some do not wish to practice law..they just wanted the JD), law school is your golden ticket there (save for maybe Wisconsin).  The bar exam will not care if you are an ABA grad or not.  The ABA and non-ABA grad will be able to practice in that state.

5) Yes there are disadvantages to non-ABA.  One is the stigma.  Another is the inability to immediately practice in a different state.  You will have a snowball's chance in hell getting hired into a "big" firm.  Is this disasterous?  No.  You will typically find that that the non-ABA folks are older than a typical law student...working during the day or raising a family, while attending school at night.  Law school at night might be someone's only way to make this dream come true.  You will also find that most of these individuals are probably not interested in working for a huge law firm, nor wanting to relocate to another state.  They may not seek working 80 hours a week to make their bosses rich and knowing that even if they bust their ass they will never "make partner".

In summary, non-ABA may not be the best choice for everyone.  This is obvious.  However, this should not infer that a non-ABA education is inferior.  Some schools choose not to play the ABA game and  some schools can't get ABA status because their law library is missing a few reporters.  It's all political BS. 

Anyway, that's my three cents (you get an extra cent).

DH
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VirtualJD

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #75 on: February 22, 2006, 01:16:19 PM »
In response to Texas' post, I'll say it.  Non-ABA, distance option is the only way for me to go.  I did think of law school immediately after I finished my under-grad degree, but other factors in my life made that impossible.  And now, the cost of quitting work to attend a brick & mortar, traditional law school is cost prohibitive and there's no local night section offered in my area.  It's the total cost that's the killer, of which tuition and books is just a minor component.

Where I am in life, I have no interest in competing with some 20-somethings or early 30-somethings to work at a firm as a junior associate for 80 hours per week to compete for a partner position years down the road.  What I want to do is to extend my effectiveness in my current career and broaden and enhance my overall skills. 

Mesquite

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Re: My Savior Duckasouras
« Reply #76 on: February 27, 2006, 06:33:10 AM »
For me, too, DL is the only way to go.  I am 54, retired (early) and have an interest in the law.  I do think if I get the virtual JD, pass the CA bar and the US patent office exam, I could do some patent law to supplement my income as my background is in engineering.  However, I am really doing DL JD because I am interested in the law.  I have always been fascinated and in awe of the US legal system.