My Savior Duckasouras

[lipper]

Aloha737pilot:

wow - u are an arrogant prick. It seriously has gotta be awful walking around life having the issues you have. Your posts say a lot about you. nobody cares how much you make, what you did in the military, or how much your pension is. people are giving you constructive criticism(sp?), advice, etc. and you go off like a bat outta hell, ranting and raving about your accomplishments.

wow, i really do not like people like you.

[Bobo]

One of the law firms in Los Angeles that I used to have a part time job with a number of years ago, big law firm, has on their staff a number of associates from non ABA law schools. A few of the associates who graduated from ABA approved law schools had a lot of trouble passing the bar. The partners invested in Bar prep tutors to get some of them through on their second try, and even had to do it again for one on his third try. Ever heard of this happening at other law firms? I'll bet it does.

Why would a large law firm pay three times for someone to take the bar?  I doubt very many large law firms would even want to keep first year associate who didn't pass the bar, especially if they failed it more than once.  I am also don't think large law firms recuit from non-ABA schools.  The hand few of attorneys that I am aware of who graduated from non-ABA schools had a successful practice before the large law firms hired them.

[sdlaw]

My firm would never hire a non aba school (we would never even hire a bottom tier), big firms in California only hire from top tiered law school, and at that top ranked students from those, as far as failing the bar I know of NO firm who gives any associate more than two attempts at the bar. 

[aloha737pilot]

Lipper, pay attention to the thread. It all started because of the comments by Duckasouras. If you call all his posts on the distance learning board constructive criticism, you have the problem. I didn't make ignorant attacks on non-traditional students. Brewha, you also need to pay attention to the thread. I don't need to have all the bells and whistles, just the education, the diploma, the bar exam, and that's it. I will worry about the rest. Why is it that you folks that go through the traditional path have such disdain for people who choose the non-tradional path. Bobo, you said it yourself that there are non-ABA graduates at your firm. It doesn't matter how they got there, they are there. SDlaw, how do you know what every law firm in LA does? You also backed me up by saying that they give the associates two chances. Why wouldn't a compassionate boss, like the guy I used to work for, give someone he really liked a third try?

The way I see it is that the law profession is a backwards thinking field by necessity. Lawyers rely on what has happened in the past to accomplish everything they do. Every once in a while someone gets to set a precedent. The study of law hadn't changed much since the 1700's when about midway through the twentieth century law study was changed from a first level degree to an advanced degree. Know any lawyers with an LLB? I'll bet you do. The guy I used to work for in LA got his LLB. In certain places in the country you can still "read the Law." An apprenticeship to being a lawyer is still possible. Justice Marshal, Supreme Court Justice, read the law for one month before being admitted to the bar. Yes it was a long time ago, but why is it not sufficient for people to study online for four years, pass the baby bar, which none of you take, and then the California bar? The way I see it is the study of law online is now setting a precedent. Like it or not, we will see it continue to grow with all of the ABA approved law schools, slowly but surely. I am sure you all have received great educations and are great lawyers, but what is it that bothers you about someone choosing a different route?

[aloha737pilot]

Lipper

I had to address you directly. You don't know me so I guess you are making your judgment based on what you read on this thread. Go back and read all of the posts from Duckpoofaceasaurous and see if he makes any sense at all. If you think he makes sense then we will call it even right now and I will not argue with you anymore. It will be you two against me and I will submit to the superior opinion. You are less likely to say you do not like a person if you actually tried to understand what was being said and where they are coming from. Not that I give a flying fart what you think of me, but look backward, as lawyers do, to the preceding posts to see what was said. I pointed out my particular accomplishments to show an ignorant individual that his blanket statements about distance learning law students were unfounded and not well researched. You have to hand it to Duckassasourass, he knows how to open his mouth and let nothing intelligent come out.

[voice of reason]

Aloha, what is your problem?  For the most part, these people have been trying to give you useful advice.  When you shun them and flaunt your own achievements, you look like a fool; not only because you view their criticism as unfounded, but also because you assume that your intelligence outshines the collective opinion of the board. 

If your posts are any indication of your personality, it is sad that as a traditional student many years younger than you I am more mature than you as a 42 year old.  Many older students have always bothered me in the classroom, and you illustrate this point perfectly.  Those that come from a career back to school often carry a chip on their shoulder.  You seem to think that with your age comes some sort of infallible wisdom.  Your life experiences don't mean *&^% in the classroom, sorry.  No one cares when you raise your hand and talk about your kids, your last career, etc.  I am not bashing all older students, just the ones that believe age brings superiority.  I have the utmost respect for those that make the hard choice to further their education.

ONLINE LAW SCHOOL IS NOT A GOOD IDEA.  Get that through your head.  Law schools, at least the decent ones, are not in existence to teach to the bar exam.  That's what a bar prep course is for.  Law school is to teach you to "think like a lawyer", not give you a set of rules to memorize for an exam.  This is achieved through the Socratic Method, whether you agree with it or not, and it cannot be attained digitally.  Do you think the opinion of everyone on this board can be wrong?  Why do you think they are warning you time and again?  Is it because they are whores to the ABA, as you suppose?  These are people in law school that realize that the same effect could not be acquired online.  I'm sure many of them would agree that other degrees such as an associates degree are better suited to a digital format.  They have no vested interest in seeing you fail.  I'm sure many of them could care less whether you get a law degree, they just wanted to give you some constructive criticism.  Just as you bashed duck for not knowing much about pilot training, you seem to know very little about lawyer training.

The "stigma" of an online law degree will follow you the rest of your life.  Its not enough to pass the bar exam and even get a job, you have to bring in clients and have them trust you.  I know several people close to me that are involved in lawsuits, both laypeople and lawyers, so I asked them some questions.  Each and every one preferred an ABA accredited lawyer to one that was not.  Each and every one preferred a non accredited lawyer that attended a brick and mortar law school to a lawyer that "attended" a virtual one.  This is not a coincidence.  You WILL be last in the pecking order.  I'll leave you with a quote from a friend when asked about if they would use the services of an attorney that received their degree online:

"I'd rather die in a fire than trust my life or money to someone that went to law school online."

[sdlaw]

I agree totally law schools teach you to think like a lawyer, barbri teaches you to take the bar, also I question your alleged 170 lsat, with that type score money would not be an issue as most schools would give you a scholarship.  As far as my comments about 2 attempts for the bar, thats only for biglaw, no small to medium firm will give you that chance and no biglaw will hire a non aba (insurance company wouldn't let us even if we wanted to)

[aloha737pilot]

Is that what all you people are doing on the distance education law school board, doling out your advice to the unfortunate ones who are about to make the worst mistake in their life? Why don't you go find another board to mess with. I personally don't need your advice if you haven't gone through a distance program. Who are you really, "Voice of Reason"? Newbie with one post just decides to weigh into this board like all the other good advice givers.

What is it that makes it so hard to understand that this is the decision that is made by many people every year that are highly intelligent, to get educated through the wonders of the internet. If I were so concerned about pecking orders and who would rather die in a fire than hire a lawyer that got his JD from an online school, I would do the same thing you all are doing. But don't you get it by now, I don't care about those things, never have, never will. What I care about is that I have the knowledge and expertise to become an active member in my union and help to keep the corporate hatchet men from tearing our company apart like they recently have.

If you would like to offer some constructive advice and criticism, and have the expertise and experience to know what you are talking about, I'd love to hear from you. I would also like to see some of you go back to the beginning of the thread and see what the fuss is all about. I have tried to keep in the context of "Duckasouras" attacking every posting on the distance learning board.

Voice of reason, if you found it necessary to go to a brick and mortar law school, I applaud your efforts. It isn't easy to do. That is why lawyers are held in high esteem in most social circles. They are looked upon as highly educated, somewhat elite members of our society. I know many lawyers, partners and associates alike, and have great respect for them. Not one of my own friends has even mentioned that I would be making a mistake to do what I am doing. They know why I am doing it and they know my situation, and they know me. I did have a partner at one firm tell me he has influence at our local law school, when I explained to him I didn't want to stop my life to go to law school, he offered his office and his assistance whenever I needed it. Supportive friends will make it all the more meaningful.

So you see, in summation, I am a distance learning law student, feel free to look at me with whatever negative feelings you may harbor, it is your right. I will look upon an individual who has made the effort to educate himself, whether a lawyer or not, with the respect he deserves. If he comes after me with ignorant personal attacks and mindless drivel because he has a problem in his life, I will offer an answer in response.

[voice of reason]

Who am I really?  Certainly not a newbie, just someone that reads the board often but hasn't felt compelled to actually register and post stuff until you arrived.

At this point, not many people are giving you constructive criticism.  That is because of the way you come off.  No one cares that you were in the military and I'm certain that no one asked or cares about what you make a year or your pension.  In fact, you are speaking to a group where many will graduate law school and make more in their first year than your highly touted "six-figure" salary that you make at 42.  It doesn't work to brag in a room full of highly successful people.

Oh, and I like how you say that I "found it necessary" to attend a physical law school, as though an online law school is the superior choice or even confers equal benefits.  You speak with arrogance, and that makes people dislike you.  Law school is not something you can do in your spare time, or even something that you do for fun or mere knowledge.  It is a professional school, designed to train a person to be a lawyer.  If you treat it any other way, you are simply wasting your time and money (or in your case, someone else's money).

I'd also like to call bull on the alledged 170 LSAT.  Knowing that you wanted to attend an online law school, why would you try so hard?  Attaining a score of 170 requires a ton of time, hard work and dedication.  Something tells me that a person with a career, family, and what I would describe as a passing interest to study law does not have these things.  And I doubt the 170 just came naturally to you, a cold score of 170 is next to impossible.  Of course there is no way for me to verify this one way or another, so I won't bother to go on.  But I do smell bull.

[duckasourus]

aloha is an idiot he is full of crap and just keeps saying lies about how good he is and how he is mr macho but reality is he couldnt get into any law school, is losing his hair, is having a mid life crisis, and probably should not be in charge of an air craft with his mental state, I mean he recommended the army to a drunk, do not get me wrong I LOVE THE TROOPS but they tend to be a non sober group (i dont blame them tho)