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Author Topic: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing  (Read 13625 times)

4dloveoflaw

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making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« on: December 20, 2005, 03:47:00 PM »
The notion that online law schools being ABA approved is a heaven sent dream is a false notion.  The law profession is already flooded as it is, yet allowing a whole new market into the career field.  A law degree is an education that an enormous amount of the population truly have a desire for.  Schools like Concord who are owned by Kaplan learned that after preparing so many people for the LSAT that there is a $$$$market feeding of of the interest of others.  The J.D is almost like a bachelor's degree because everyone either has one, is getting one, or wants one.  Many employers, and decent firms can choose from the best of the best because the competition is so fierce.  If we allow online Law Degrees to be ABA and handed out like candy, unless you have a rich uncle who happens to sit on the admission board at Harvard you are not going to find a decent paying job.  You are investing in an education not a new car.  The J.D in itself controls the amountof people who have one, because of the rigorous commitment a J.D requires.  The more J.D 's in the career market and the easier it is to get one, the less value the degree has.  For example a M.D is not an over sought degree because of the demands of medical school and thus if you do have one you are recruited and paid well. Most graduates after Law School as it stands now are un-employed.  Can you imangine how the market would be if a market of thousands of online students began to practice law in your job market?

I am not trying to be synical but more realistic.

Wild Jack Maverick

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #1 on: December 21, 2005, 08:12:33 AM »
I just completed micro economics. Now what was that about monopolies, oligopolies, the use of economies of scale and licensing of professions as a way of regulating and creating barriers of entry?

The ABA was founded in 1878. Other important events of the same year include the first phone directory, Central Park was in the construction stage, the invention of the microphone, and work began on the first vehicle powered by an internal combustion engine.

There have been many changes and improvements since 1878. What about the ABA?

Quote
"Most graduates after Law School as it stands now are un-employed."
The statement sort of makes it sound as if the more expensive law degrees are not worth the cost.


"Democracy does not guarantee equality of conditions - it only guarantees equality of opportunity."-- Irving Kristol

"I enjoy being in school. I've learned so much already, with taking economics and law, and I have marketing and statistics coming up next."

duckasourus

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2006, 07:11:07 PM »
There have been many changes and improvements since 1878. What about the ABA?

Um the aba has added schools as they have proven to produce students with the skills necessary to be lawyers.  Internet law schools simply breed off of those who want to be lawyers but are not smart enough to become lawyers, and thus throw away there money into a fake degree with no hope of getting a real job.  Sure you can start your own firm all together but first you have to pass the bar, not likely, and malpractice rates would be through the roof.

philibusters

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2006, 11:39:21 PM »
Umm, from a person perspective and not looking at merit it would suck if the ABA approved online law schools because that would devalue my investment in law school, I pay out of state tutution and with living expenses thats about $40,000 a year times three, just the high price along keeps the market from being flooded.

From a merit perspective if you can pass the bar then I think its fair you should be able to practice.   I wouldn't mind if they made the bar a little harder to weed people out-as long as my school then prepared me for it instead of letting me fend for myself like they do now.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

PJ

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2006, 01:41:19 PM »
Good Day.  What a great debate.  As many of you feel, I agree that the market is flooded with J.D.s.  It is not flooded with esq.  The Bar is the great leveler of the JD.  As one of you wrote, you will graduate with a $120,000 in debt.  I will not.  What is your school's Bar pass rate.  Mine is one of the best in California.  If my school is so much better at teaching me the law I will need to practice, why should my school be denide recognition by the ABA for being superior in producing people ready to practice?

Just a question- Devil's advocate thing.

RootBrewskies

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #5 on: March 27, 2006, 02:09:44 PM »
i support the notion of not allowing online ABA approved law schools to open up.  i dont think there should be online law schools for a few reasons.

first of all i dont think it would flood the market with lawyers because i dont think that anyone (or barely anyone) who went to an online law school would pass the bar.  more importantly though, i dont want traditional law schools to see online learning as a way to cash in (in the same way they have in undergrad and some grad school levels).  ive unfortunately been forced to take some online classes and they have been utterly worthless.  i could not imagine taking them for law school and expect to perform as well. 

i also dont think that online law schools are a good idea because i think that being an attorney is a profession that is not suited for everyone.  there is a reason that law school is competitive for entry and a reason that classes at schools are small.  if online law schools open up the overall value of a JD would go down and the time honored profession would be devalued. 


that being said, i support technological integration into classrooms but i do not think that technology can replace the classroom. 

law school is not a weeknight get training in medical assistant school.  it is hard work with competitive entry and students, this is a negative aspect of law school, this is why the country is essentially run by lawyers.  its the best of the best and thats how it should stay.

philibusters

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2006, 10:38:57 PM »
I think my schools bar passage rate is in the uppers 80%'s, I know its 85% for VA.  Passing the bar isn't too hard if you study for it, my guess is the people who don't pass from my school don't take it serious enough.  I kind of wish my school prepared us rahter than doing it on our own, but I am not too worried about it, I being only a 1L now.

In the end, I doubt online schools give you as good an education as a brick and mortar, if they teach you state law for the bar and you still aren't passing, then you probably haven't mastered legal analysis yet.  BUT within a year of practicing, it probably doesn't make a difference, as on the job training is what really counts. The legal reasoning you don't pick up from class and getting questioned by your profs, you pick up from being immersed in legal work and watching other lawyers. 

I will have $120,000 invested in law school when I graduate, but its a sure thing (I would be shocked if I don't pass the bar on my first try).  I am 22 so I'll take the sure thing.  If I was 45, maybe I wouldn't feel it was a safe bet that I would be able to recoup my investment and would take cheaper options more seriously.
2008 graduate of William and Mary Law School

beeg

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2006, 01:42:55 AM »
Good Day.  What a great debate.  As many of you feel, I agree that the market is flooded with J.D.s.  It is not flooded with esq.  The Bar is the great leveler of the JD.  As one of you wrote, you will graduate with a $120,000 in debt.  I will not.  What is your school's Bar pass rate.  Mine is one of the best in California.  If my school is so much better at teaching me the law I will need to practice, why should my school be denide recognition by the ABA for being superior in producing people ready to practice?

Just a question- Devil's advocate thing.

If you were able to spell correctly I might think your argument was worthwhile.

BizLaw

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2006, 12:05:55 AM »
Just my two cents, but if one takes a step back to view this debate as an analogous argument, wouldn't one see that the refusal of the ABA to grant accreditation to Online law schools is the same as a CO-OP Board refusing to admit a potential tenant/buyer?  Both are exercising their right to discriminate (which in either scenario is perfectly legal), but are they acting in the best interest of themselves with regards to survival of the entity?

25 years ago did anyone really think that we would be able to "post" comments on something called the Internet?  Maybe so, maybe not; regardless, Online law schools are here.  So is it time for the ABA have a serious discussion about its policies regarding the accreditation?  Why not, it currenlty approves of some Online courses provided through B&M LS, and I suppose the ABA can just excersise its right to just not listen.

Whatever the outcome of the debate will be, it probably will not be decided for some time to come.  But in the meantime, we'll condinue to debate, go to school, and live big.

lawafter40

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Re: making online Law schools ABA is a bad thing
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2007, 12:22:51 AM »
There have been many changes and improvements since 1878. What about the ABA?

Um the aba has added schools as they have proven to produce students with the skills necessary to be lawyers.  Internet law schools simply breed off of those who want to be lawyers but are not smart enough to become lawyers, and thus throw away there money into a fake degree with no hope of getting a real job.  Sure you can start your own firm all together but first you have to pass the bar, not likely, and malpractice rates would be through the roof.

Appears B&M schools prey off those too stupid to learn basic English... ;D