Studying Time and how to spend it

[ryanjm]

I had heard a difference between Tier 1 and much lower ranked schools was that the Tier 3-4 taught the state law of the state they're located in and Tier 1 did not. The rationale is supposedly that Tier-1 schools send their graduates to places around the country, while Tier 3-4 stays in-state.

[antwan]

there is absolutely no truth in this. the subject matter is exactly the same. Obviously wich ever state your school is in will thow in some of that states law. But only sparingly

[jimmyjohn]

there is absolutely no truth in this. the subject matter is exactly the same. Obviously wich ever state your school is in will thow in some of that states law. But only sparingly

Actually I think there is at least some truth to it.  I'm at a T1 which actually does very well in state as far as placement and rep. and we spend very little time learning the law of our state.  There is a T4 in the state which is notorious for teaching the black letter law of our state. They pride themselves on the high bar pass percentage.  Basically the school is just a 3 year bar bri course while at my school we spend more time on learning how to reason and argue from a variety of perspectives.  Not saying that T3 and T4 schools don't do this, but I can think of at least one example where the T4 school "teaches the bar" and the T1 school doesn't.

[eray01]

My school "teaches to the bar", and our classes have been exactly like the T1 people describe their classes. What it means to "teach to the bar" at my school means they have required nearly every course that covers anything that's on the bar exam. We hardly have any time for electives at all (We're all in 1 of 3 specialty tracks though). The list of requirements nearly mirrors the list of bar exam topics. In fact, we take the second part of property and contracts in the 2nd semester of 2L and the 1st semester of 3L. When I asked why, they told me it was because people do better on the bar when those topics are more fresh. Frankly, its nice that my school isn't leaving me out in the cold on the bar exam. Since passing the bar exam is the only thing that really matters, it's nice to have some extra help. I feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

If a school isn't teaching you how to reason and argue from a variety of perspectives, something is seriously wrong, because that is really the only thing students will fully carry with them into practice. That's really the whole point of law school. We all know from other levels of school that we forget most of the black letter stuff eventually anyway. But, above anything else, if you're school isn't "teaching the bar," I'd ask for my money back pronto.

As far as learning law specific to our state, there hasn't been much and where there is some it's only for illustration. I think the notion that low ranked law schools teach just law from that state is a myth. There's this little thing called the Multi-State portion of the bar exam.

[ryanjm]

Hmmm. Maybe I'm thinking of the wrong thing. Perhaps it's that the law is more practical and less theoretical at lower tiered schools. It's in "Law School Confidential" but I don't have it with me at the moment. Plus I know from some other posts that people mentioned a lack of theoretical discussion at their t3-4, which I'm not sure if that's good or bad. Surely you teach just a little differently to people at harvard and people at "insert tier-4 here". Let's not be totally defensive and ignore the 500lb gorilla.

[antwan]

I agree that lower tierd schools are more practice oriented. I know cause Im at one. However we were no.1 in the state on the last bar exam. Shouldn't preparing for the bar be the most important thing. That fancy T14 degree will be useless when you fail the bar and lose that great job (which is what happens when a firm hires you and you fail the bar) besides, as long as you learn the black letter law, how to apply it, and understand the background, who really cares about policy. Im not saying its meaningless, but definately not worth spending a signifigant amount of tuition on.

[ryanjm]

I guess it would depend on what type of law you're practicing as well. Your school must be one of the rare few, as most of the tier-1s have 80-100% passsage rates, with almost every T4 below 80%. The top 14 are all around 90%+ Studying merely to pass the bar seems like a straight memorization game instead of truly learning and understanding the law. I'm still a 1L though so I can't say whether or not that affects you down the road in terms of the way you think about the law in different situations.  http://www.geocities.com/newzraider04/ for usnews rank info.

[jacy85]

Policy arguments become more important once you start handling appeals, especially higher in the court system.

Most people can easily apply a rule to a set of facts.  But when both sides apply rules adequately well, often the policy argument can sway one way or the other.  Also, depending on the judge/justice presiding over your case or the composition of the panel, phrasing an argument using certain legal reasoning theories can be persuasive.

To look at on extreme example, this is why the Supreme Court is dominated by graduates from the country's top legal institutions, where policy and theory are main focal points of the course of study.

[eray01]

I agree that lower tierd schools are more practice oriented. I know cause Im at one. However we were no.1 in the state on the last bar exam. Shouldn't preparing for the bar be the most important thing. That fancy T14 degree will be useless when you fail the bar and lose that great job (which is what happens when a firm hires you and you fail the bar) besides, as long as you learn the black letter law, how to apply it, and understand the background, who really cares about policy. Im not saying its meaningless, but definately not worth spending a signifigant amount of tuition on.

That's what I'm saying.

Besides that, I majored and mastered in Pol. Sci.. I've had enough theory for one lifetime. By the way, I go to a T4, and our bar pass rate is 86%. In fact, considering all of our numbers, neither I nor anyone else I talk to can figure out why the school is T4. Would that be OR or NOR in that last sentence. I wouldn't know. I'm T4.

[J D]

Nor.

You were correct Hammer-san.