Law School Discussion

are your classmates snobby a**holes?

jacy85

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Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #80 on: October 24, 2005, 06:05:43 PM »
The general population is much more judgmental than you think.  Sounds like you're pretty naive.

I guess the real question is why law students are not so nice persons with the maturity of seventh graders.

Weird, isn't it? If polled the general population about something like this, probably like 5% would judge someone for not untucking their dress shirt. Yet indications are that 90% or so of law students would do that. Why do the not so nice persons gravitate to the law? It is also becoming clear to me from reading these threads that the stereotypes of lawyers are completely true. I will never trust a law student or a lawyer again.

dft

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Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #81 on: October 24, 2005, 07:58:25 PM »
I agree. The students at my school, from what I've seen, are definitely not more judgmental than any other people, or at least they've been acting that way.

The general population is much more judgmental than you think.  Sounds like you're pretty naive.

I guess the real question is why law students are not so nice persons with the maturity of seventh graders.

Weird, isn't it? If polled the general population about something like this, probably like 5% would judge someone for not untucking their dress shirt. Yet indications are that 90% or so of law students would do that. Why do the not so nice persons gravitate to the law? It is also becoming clear to me from reading these threads that the stereotypes of lawyers are completely true. I will never trust a law student or a lawyer again.

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #82 on: October 24, 2005, 10:40:28 PM »
Quote
It is also becoming clear to me from reading these threads that the stereotypes of lawyers are completely true. I will never trust a law student or a lawyer again.

Welcome to our world, babe! (not sarcastic :)

eray01

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #83 on: October 24, 2005, 10:44:12 PM »
He'll understand someday. And, let me ditto that welcome.

19guy

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #84 on: October 25, 2005, 05:44:52 PM »
I never said the non-lawyer population wasn't judgmental, but we're talkin about something off the charts here. Judging someone because they don't untuck their dress shirt! No way most people would do that. As evidence, at my friend's undergrad, there was a guy known as the "suit guy" who wore a suit all the time. No one knew exactly why he did it, but he did. Students thought it was cute and sort of admirable that he would express himself by dressing a little differently.

What would the reaction be at a law school? Obviously quite different!

It's a sad reflection on lawyers how they try to defend their awful behavior by bringing everyone down to their level. "Everyone is that judgmental." "Everyone is that selfish and unethical". "Everyone is that miserable in their work."

eray01

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #85 on: October 25, 2005, 07:00:30 PM »
It's not really about being unique. I think what people are talking about here is the pretense put on by the people we're talking about. We're talking about the same people who show up at orientation carrying a briefcase. Is there anything in the briefcase? No. Have they ever carried a briefcase before? Probably not. Why are they doing it now. Because they're playing make-believe lawyer. It's just funny. Maybe you can't see what's funny about it, but you probably will if you ever go to law school.


By the way. Why, exactly, are you on this board?


gd

Why Are Lawyers Such Snobs?
« Reply #86 on: February 17, 2006, 05:41:35 AM »
Ethical Esq. and I are having a little conversation about young lawyers' debt and its impact on the profession, and it's gotten me all worked up.

I promised him I'd think it through a little more and post my thoughts. Which I will do, one of these days. But for now here's a hasty and poorly-thought-out reaction right now. Any conversation about the future of the profession is incomplete if it doesn't acknowledge how pervasive and influential our profession's snobbery about pedigree is. I happen to think it's ugly and stupid, myself, but there is no arguing that it is there, and I think maybe older, well-pedigreed lawyers forget or don't recognize just how strong a pull it exerts on young people.

I mean, I love my life and I love my law firm. I had a great time at my law school and feel that I got a real bargain -- a terrific education with student loans under $50,000. I try to make pretty deliberate choices and follow my own compass (although I still care what people think of me way too much and run astray again and again because of it). I think I've managed to do a really good job fitting my work and my life to what I really want. And yet I still REGULARLY question my choice of law school and of law firm.

Why? Because our profession worships credentials. We assume people from big, fancy law firms are smarter, and we assume people from fancy expensive law schools are better. You're a big liar if you pretend it's not true. Maybe it goes away or subsides after a career of practicing law, but we young lawyers (and certainly those applying to and attending law school) feel it acutely, and I bet the middle-aged lawyers who might have forgotten this need only check their ingrained assumptions to see that it's still there.

I was relatively oblivious to the handicap I was giving myself when I enrolled at UMaine School of Law (and I had both personal and financial reasons keeping me in Maine). But, luckily or unluckily, I did well there and got offers at the fancy skyscraper firms in the big city of my choice for my summer associateship. As a summer associate I began to realize what I was up against when I discovered what an indelicate conversation stopper it was to answer honestly when attorneys asked me where I went to school. (Harvard and Georgetown were the acceptable answers at that particular firm.) Generally, the best the inquiring lawyer could muster was "Er... I went to camp in Maine." Literally, once an attorney froze, turned away, reconsidered, turned back, and asked hopefully where I went to undergrad. When I gave him an answer within the tiny universe of acceptable schools, his relief was visible. He happily changed the conversation to that school.

And EVERYONE -- parents, professors, lawyers, business folks I knew from town -- urged me to accept my offer there, or one from another fancy law firm, even when I explained that I was pretty sure the life I wanted to build looked different than that. "Just for a couple of years," they urged. "It'll open so many doors." I didn't do it, but I recognize that my mobility is limited because I went instead to a firm nobody's ever heard of. I recognize that plenty of lawyers assume that I'm here because I didn't have the option to go somewhere "better." And the SCARIEST thing is that, after a couple of years, I'm doing it, too. I'm impressed by people with a recognizable law firm name on their resume, or a fancy diploma on their wall. Even though I have neither. Talk about low self-esteem. That's ugly. And when I talk to my friends from undergrad who are miserable at the most prestigious of white-shoe firms, I wonder whether I would've could've should've taken that route.

People, this is crap! Let's think about this. Is this really a good way to discern among people in our profession? I thought the Harvard summer associates in my class were the worst of the bunch -- not good writers, not especially impressive thinkers, and with an air of entitlement that was really ugly. The guy in my class who will be the best lawyer is a former merchant marine who didn't have the interest or inclination to go anywhere but UMaine, but he's got a fantastic mind, a real-world practicality and a great work ethic.

I could rant a lot longer (don't get me started on law review, for example, which I'm reading a lot of law students blog about) but the gist of it is, our profession exerts a nearly irresistible pressure on talented young people to climb to the highest rung of a specific and extremely narrow ladder. To do so, they incur big big debt, and take on impossibly demanding schedules, at school and in the beginnings of their professional career. And then the golden handcuffs kick in (and the professional snobbery sinks deeper) and making a different choice means admitting you can't "hack it". It's a real trap for the unwary.

Can any of you seasoned lawyers help me see this in a different way?

http://civpro.blogs.com/civil_procedure/2003/09/why_are_lawyers.html

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #87 on: September 06, 2006, 06:05:40 PM »

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #88 on: September 07, 2006, 08:41:39 AM »
Haha this post is funny.  Yes, I agree with the OP...some ppl are really full of themselves.  AND MAN...does law school feel like high school or what? The cliques? My God...and here I thought we were all "adults."

seine

Re: are your classmates snobby a**holes?
« Reply #89 on: September 09, 2006, 04:47:12 AM »
Awesome thread, Roni.