ST. JOHN'S PART TIME EVENING PROGRAM

[starlette]

Hi everyone, I am in dire need of advice. Should I attend part time at St. John's University or full-time NYLS? I don't plan on working in the day time if I attend part-time. Does anyone know if you need to maintain a certain GPA to transfer into full-time status at St. John's? Any advice or feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[arioso]

St. John's part-time.

[mmom]

Hi everyone, I am in dire need of advice. Should I attend part time at St. John's University or full-time NYLS? I don't plan on working in the day time if I attend part-time. Does anyone know if you need to maintain a certain GPA to transfer into full-time status at St. John's? Any advice or feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Transfer Students

Applicants considering submitting a transfer application must be currently enrolled in a law school that is a member of the Association of American Law Schools and approved by the American Bar Association (ABA). If the applicant has maintained standards satisfactory to the faculty of St. John's University School of Law, the Committee on Admissions may, at its discretion, consider admission with advanced standing on the following conditions:

• The applicant complies with the regular admission requirements and procedures of the School of Law.
• The applicant presents an official transcript. The transcript must certify regular attendance and successful completion of courses equal in time to those taken by students at the School of Law, with a day (three-year) program of at least ten hours per week or an evening (four-year) program of at least eight hours per week.
• The applicant presents a letter from the Dean or appropriate law school official certifying that the applicant is in good standing at his or her current law school.
• Transfer students are required to earn at least 57 semester hours credit at St. John's University School of Law to be eligible for the J.D. degree.

Admission with advanced standing is subject to any additional special conditions the faculty may impose. Differences in programs and courses, as well as scheduling difficulties, frequently result in the loss of some credit. Applicants contemplating a transfer to the School of Law should submit applications well in advance of the date of any prospective transfer.

For additional information, please call 718-990-6474.

[whiteytighty]

St. John's is old-fashioned, but in good ways. For example, professors' continued reliance on the Socratic method is challenging, to be sure, but also stimulating and a great incentive to always read carefully! However, St. John's could benefit from more classes about research and writing, which is the most important skill a lawyer can have. The law school facilities are excellent, clean, convenient, and efficiently designed. and the building is "immaculate", there's a great library, and plenty of room for students to study and socialize. If you are planning to practice in New York City, St. John's is an excellent place to do it, as the school has a strong regional reputation and extensive contacts in the legal community. In particular, St. John's alumni are a fantastic resource to students.

[irinadul]

Hi everyone, I am in dire need of advice. Should I attend part time at St. John's University or full-time NYLS? I don't plan on working in the day time if I attend part-time. Does anyone know if you need to maintain a certain GPA to transfer into full-time status at St. John's? Any advice or feedback will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

I had the same exact decision to make, and I actually spoke to  a couple of lawyers and my pre-law advisor and they advised me to go to St. John's.  It is nationally recognized, unlike NYLS, and actually costs less.  It is 5 classes part time, so there it really is like being a full time student.  Most people have told me that in the long run, if it turns out that you have to do 4 years, it is small price to pay for the education you receive.  Decision's yours.

[pglavoie]

What is the class schedule like for the PT evening program?  Are there different options or do the classes always start at the same time of night?  Are they offered all week or only on certain nights?

[RobWreck]

My first year classes last year for the PT evening program were:
1st Semester
Contracts - 3cr - 2/wk
Torts - 3cr - 2/wk
Property - 2cr - 1/wk
Legal Writing - 2cr - 1/wk
Intro to Law -2cr - 1/wk (although school starts 1 wk earlier for 1L's and during that first pre-week, you have this class 4/wk for about 3 hrs a clip. This class also ends part-way through the semester - late September. It's the only P/F class you have first year).
Total - 12 credits - classes are 4 nights a week (Mon-Thu)

2nd Semester
Contracts - 3cr - 2/wk
Torts - 2cr - 1/wk
Property - 4cr
Legal Writing & Research - 2cr - 1/wk
Total - 11 credits - classes are 4 nights a week (Mon-Thu)

Most nights classes @ 6:30 and there is only 1 section for the PT evening program, so you take all the classes with the same classmates. The exception is Legal Writing, which gets broken down to about 3 sub-sections. The main difference between the PT and FT program is that the FT students take Civil Procedure and Criminal law during their 1L year where the PT students take them in the Fall of their 2L year.

Of course, this may all change because the school is making a change to Constitutional Law. Currently, it is a 2nd year class, offered in 2 parts for 3 credits each (Con Law I & II, 3cr & 3cr). However, starting **I believe** this incoming class, Con Law will be a 4 credit class they require as a 1L subject. Not sure how that will affect the PT students...
Rob

[beinlaw]

Hey Rob, thanks for the info about St. John's from another thread!

I'm just curious, what's the LSAT and GPA like for the PT compared to the FT? I'm interested in going there as well.

I took the Feb. LSAT at St. John's yesterday at Marillac Hall and it was a bit... *yick, let's put it that way. I did see the School of Law while I walked to Marillac but please tell it looks nicer than Marillac.

[RobWreck]

I'm not familiar with the undergrad facilities... as a law student everything you need is right in the law school building (aside from the Bursar's office). So while I can't talk about how they compare, I can talk about the law school facilities themselves. The school has 7 large classrooms, 2 of which have been recently remodelled (1 just remodelled this past summer, the other about 4 years ago). Of the remaining 5, the three 'in the basement' (i.e. the lower level) is where I spent most of my first year (and my 3 classes this semester) and was/am generally happy. The 3 downstairs show a little bit of wear and tear, but are generally good classrooms. The only large classrooms that aren't that great are the ones flanking the moot court room... and that's more a function of their shape and lack of electrical wiring (there was a great maze of interconnected power strips for the 70 of us last semester). Then there's a handful of smaller classrooms that I have yet to use, but they were clean and bright and by virtue of their size they have to be perfect for seeing/hearing the professor.
The library is where I spend most of my non-work/non-class time. It has just renovated and enlarged its Writing Center, added another private study room, decreased the size of its computer lab (there was no need for all the computer stations they had before and 1/3rd of them never worked right). There are plenty of cubicles to go study in, as well as more open tables for those looking for a less claustrophobic feel.
The cafeteria is pretty decent if you go during the daytime... the biggest problem are all the undergrads that go there (because it's the best dining spot on campus).
So overall, I'm prett happy with the law school facilities. Over this past summer they renovated one of the large lecture hall classrooms, expanded and really developed the Writing Center, and completely redid the wireless connections in the school... which are alot faster and more reliable now.
Rob

PS: Re-reading your question, I seem to have focused on your last little comment about the facilities rather than actually address your question about the LSAT and GPA's. The PT program has 2 different types of students... 1) people like myself that work FT and have no choice but to go PT, regardless of grades and LSAT and 2) people whose numbers weren't high enough to get into the FT program. Because PT program numbers were never reported to USNWR, many PT program spaces were filled with students that the AdComm's thought could succeed if given the chance, despite their undergrad grades and/or LSAT. St. John's even has a probational admit program where students are offered a probational admission contingent on taking a summer class and getting a B- or better. The past couple years it's been Contracts I that they've offered over the summer, and those that make the grade are given a seat in the PT program. One girl I know who was accepted into the PT section under that program wound up with a 3.7 GPA. She later transferred to the day FT program and she's on law review and moot court... pretty clearly a case of the numbers not reflecting her ability to succeed in law school.
So whata re the numbers like between the PT and FT programs? Obviously the LSAT and GPA are generally going to be higher for the FT program. Not sure how that's going to change with USNWR now ranking PT programs...   

[epicac]

Hi everyone, I am in dire need of advice. Should I attend part time at St. John's University or full-time NYLS?

I had a similar decision.  There were other more significant factors in my decision to go to NYLS, but have you checked the schools' locations?