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Author Topic: Timing Sucks  (Read 5758 times)

4L

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Timing Sucks
« on: June 24, 2005, 12:19:30 AM »
I don't know about you guys, but I think this whole OCI/fall recruiting/summer associate thing is bull. I mean, I received several offers for a summer associate position after my second year and chose one that I *thought* would be "the one." it turned out it was the worst experience in my life. I withdrew my name (and probably wouldn't have gotten the offer) and then basically screwed myself.

Most large firms hire out of their summer associate pool and if you didn't like your firm or didn't get an offer, you're marked with a huge red flag on your head. Then you are stuck with midtier firms or whatever that pay way less. The OCI at my school had 99% interviews for 2Ls and only a few small dinky schools for 3Ls so I had to do targeted mailings. I only targeted one city (nyc), I know, it was stupid. only got 2 call backs and no body wanted to hire me because...gasp...my school is in the midwest (all coasts hate the midwest, don't get jumpy or defensive, it's just the plain stupid fact). So...I didn't get a job. All the large firms have hired by then. That means, the next cycle to get hired is a whole freakin' year (until next fall). So what the hell?

Have any of you recent grads found any jobs who didn't have one lined up since fall? This is really ridiculous. Not to toot my own horn (believe me, it's really not that great of a horn) but I have stats that should land me a 6 figure job easily but my timing is off. In fact, I turned down a call back for several 6 figure firms last year because I already accepted my stupid summer associate position at the number one evil firm in the world. This timing thing sucks. You may be more qualified than some of their entry level lawyers, but because they were summers there, they got hired. OR, the firm might be a capacity even though your stats are just as good or better than some of their attorneys.

Any comments? (please don't tell me I sound pissed or whatever, I know. constructive comments please). any advice or true stories to help cheer me up and give me hope that I'll get a job instead of having to wait until the next fall recruiting cycle??

lincolnsgrandson

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2005, 02:48:26 PM »
I don't understand.  Why didn't you take the job you summered with?  Didn't you know that the big firms hire directly from their summer programs?  What makes it "bull"?  Did you think they you were paying everyone $2400 a week just because they were sweethearts? 



lincolnsgrandson

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2005, 02:50:46 PM »
Do you think the firms are penalizing you because you summered with another firm and chose not to take the job?  Or is just because it's just too difficult to get a job unless you do a 2L summer program?

4L

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #3 on: June 26, 2005, 01:17:13 AM »
so you think that everyone who summers should take the job? now THAT'S bull. the firm did some quite questionable things, I did not like it and could not bear to be there more than the 3 months I was already there. do you really think that just because they ay you $2400, you ought to stay? there's more to life than money.

additionally, the post was about TIMING, not about being penalized for not taking the offer. most firms fulfill their requirements from summer associates, so then, it makes it difficult for those who did not take the job (or did not get the job, as I know some firms only take half of their summers). these people then have to go back to OCI where the pickings are very slim...look, do I really need to recap my post?


lincolnsgrandson

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #4 on: June 27, 2005, 07:00:10 AM »
Do I think that just because a company is paying you $2400+ per week, you should actually make some commitment to work for them?  I think that most people out of law school would think that's an inane question.  I ask you again - why do you think they were paying you that money?

It's a loss leader.  They wouldn't be giving up the scrill if it wasn't worth it the firm, because the firm doesn't really go by that "money isn't everything" ideal.  They expect you will go to work for them, and participants have the assurance that a phat-paying job is guaranteed when they guaranteed.  All the dinners and activities are just loss-leaders, too.  I'm sure you know that disappears after you pass the bar.  Your firm was just a little more honest by being bad from the getgo. 

So now what is that you are trying to say?  Instead of just having a six-figure job handed to you - an opportunity that you had but passed on - you will have to work all year to get a job.  You'll have to write lots of resumes and try to get interviews, and it will be a lot of work.  (and if your academic record is so solid, you'll get one). And that's the same situation for about 85% of your classmates.
boo f-ing hoo.

jdohno

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #5 on: July 04, 2005, 12:54:57 PM »
Do you have any NY connections? That might have helped with the NY firms. From what I read, I don't understand why you didn't do a split summer with the other firms you received offers from. It does look like you will have to send resumes to a bunch of firms next year. Try this book, Guerrilla Tactics for Getting the Legal Job of Your Dreams by Kimm Alayne Walton. But whatever you do, don't badmouth the firm where the summer offer didn't work out. Also have you considered a clerkship or govt work? Good luck.

so you think that everyone who summers should take the job? now THAT'S bull. the firm did some quite questionable things, I did not like it and could not bear to be there more than the 3 months I was already there. do you really think that just because they ay you $2400, you ought to stay? there's more to life than money.

additionally, the post was about TIMING, not about being penalized for not taking the offer. most firms fulfill their requirements from summer associates, so then, it makes it difficult for those who did not take the job (or did not get the job, as I know some firms only take half of their summers). these people then have to go back to OCI where the pickings are very slim...look, do I really need to recap my post?



Bored_3L

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #6 on: July 04, 2005, 02:23:12 PM »
I think you're missing the point of the system.  While there undoubtedly is some expectation that all the summers will return as full-time associates, I think the primary reason hiring is done this way is becuase it gives firms a 3 month period to determine if they want to invest serious money in you.  As a first year associate you're generally not going to be a money maker for the firm so before investing 150K (salary, benefits, bar expenses, moving expenses, etc) they're going to want to see if their initial interview impression of you was correct.  You really can't tell how someone is going to work out as an associate after only a few hours of interviewing, so this summer system means they can try you out at a fraction of the cost and in such a way that they have an easy out if you turn out to be a bust. 

This is also why firms are wary to interview 3L's who don't have offers from their 2L summer firm.  In most firms it is presumed that you will get a full time offer unless you do something totally outrageous, so if you don't get an offer other firms automatically presume it's because you are a screwup.  If Firm X gave you a shot for 3 months and you didn't work out, why should Firm Y take a chance on full-time employment when they don't have an easy way to get rid of you?  Obviously this reasoning doesn't apply to every 2L summmer who doesn't get an offer, but its the way firms think. 
   

3Ldude

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2005, 12:31:53 AM »
If you are gonna make that much money you need to quit whining... i mean McDonalds needs people for a year... if you are worth 6 figures you'll get a job through a targeted resume campaign or you may have to settle for one of those "crappy" oci jobs.


almostdone

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2005, 08:41:29 PM »
Yeah, sorry.  Very little sympathy.  I'm sure you could have taken the super-lucrative job and lived with it for a year or so, and then moved on.  Some of us didn't have that option to begin with.  My 2L firm didn't have the money to hire anyone.  So, in the same boat.  And, obviously, some positions are open, such as the one you left.   

DorianGre

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Re: Timing Sucks
« Reply #9 on: May 08, 2006, 01:59:13 PM »
Hell, I couldn't even find a 2L summer gig being in the top 10% and law review. So, suck it up and start beating the bushes like the rest of us.