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Author Topic: Top of T4 or transfer T2  (Read 6305 times)

jdohno

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2005, 02:52:43 PM »
You're right I did make a blanket statement that job opportunities are non existent for T4. The location of your school does matter. But the majority of T4 schools have more competitive schools in that same area. Also, I am too frustrated by the fact that the bottom tier schools sometimes do a better job of training people to hit the ground running as a lawyer then some of the top schools.
You have to weigh everything. It sounds like you are on the right track. Good luck to you.

I'm not talking about regional offices of big law firms. I'm talking about top 250 firms like Dinsmore and Shohl, Frost Brown Todd, Greenebaum Doll and Mcdonald, Stites and Harbison, Vorys Sater Seymour and Pease, Porter Wright Morris and Arthur, and Wyatt Tarrant and Combs for example, whose home offices are in Cincinnati, Columbus, and Louisville. And yes, there are some regional offices of big law firms here too. I would pretty much expect that firms would be more willing to hire Harvard grads if for no other reason than they probably have a better resume than most because that's necessary just to get into Harvard. I've worked at two of the firms I listed above, and anyone there who went to Harvard was from the area and came back to practice there after graduation. As for the rest of them, a solid 75 percent of them at least went to the local school which was at that time third tier. I won't debate relative job opportunities with you because you're correct, but we've come along way from non-existent job opportunities in the fourth tier. As for the ego thing, you're right. Rankings are more about career. I just think there are some folks out there who'd do just fine wherever they go, with a few notable exceptions, but their egos just couldn't handle the idea of going to some second, third or fourth tier "toilet" (as I've heard it put) with the rest of us scrubs. But, look, I largely agree with you. I'm just trying to draw out distinctions.

These kinds of discussions always remind me of a story I've been meaning to tell somewhere. This is, of course, only an anecdote. So, take its general applicability for what its worth. In undergrad I worked as an intern in a local prosecutors office. One of the cases actually made it all the way trial, so I thought it would be fun to go watch. The morning of the trial I was sitting in the courtroom, and the defense attorney in the case approached me and said he'd seen me around and would like to introduce himself. I knew who he was because he was a partner in a small but very succesful private practice in town. I told him I was thinking about going to law school, and he began explaining to me how he'd gone to a top ranked school and had actaully graduated first in his class. He told me if I worked hard, I could be just as successful as him someday. I was a little flabbergasted, but I was polite and, frankly, a little flattered that he would be wasting his time talking to me. Shortly thereafter, the trial got underway, and I spent the rest of the day watching our prosecutor, who was a graduate of a third tier night school program, embarass and humiliate this pompous bastard. I even caught the judge laughing at him at one point. Needless to say, the prosecution won, and the icing on the cake came when, after the verdict, the judge ordered the defendant immediately taken in to custody to serve her five day sentence in the county jail. The defendant and her attorney looked like deer in headlights. In the hallway, the defendant was yelling at her counsel, and as I walked out the attorney and I looked at each other, and he couldn't look me in the eye. It was at that point I realized that I really wanted to be a Lawyer. I wanted to embarass pompous bastards too. When I first started working in that office they told me that the private attorneys look down on the prosecutors until they go to trial and get beaten. They called it "put up or shut up time." I'm looking forward to "put up or shut up time."

jdohno

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2005, 05:14:56 PM »
I don't have a choice. The type of law I want to practice is mostly in the big cities and the jobs are at the big firms. I don't mind. I have worked in the corporate field before. But I only have about 4 cities to choose from (well three since I have no desire to live in NY) that are big markets for my practice area.

Thanks. I'm keeping my options open as far as transferring and so forth. I don't really know what to do yet. i'm more of a solo kind of guy, So I .don't know if the big firm thing really applies to me anyway.

crissy00

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #12 on: July 04, 2005, 01:02:22 PM »
What kind of law do you want to practice?

jdohno

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #13 on: July 04, 2005, 02:10:53 PM »
I'm just going to give a broad answer and say that it's a part of corporate law.

What kind of law do you want to practice?

BeerandLaw

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2005, 07:57:24 PM »
I'm just going to give a broad answer and say that it's a part of corporate law.




Why not give a straight answer to what you want to do? I am uncertain of what type of law I want to work in, and if you could, would you please share more about this part of corporate law you mention. If not, no worries.

jdohno

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2005, 08:13:55 PM »
At my current school, I have been very vocal about the school not offering enough courses in the program and how one of my transfer schools is a better choice. So as soon I state the area it would be easy for someone at my school to out me. It's by no means a popular area and it's a bit nerdy and technical. It's no big deal.

Are you interested in corporate law? Biglaw? Do you want to do public interest? Government? When you know the type of law you want to do then law school can be more bearable. But if you don't know what area you want to do then law school might provide a spark. I had a guy in my property class who just loved the class. He got As in both semester and was just great in class. So now he is doing a project with my property professor and will be taking real estate law classes second year. But at the same time, don't worry if that spark doesn't happen first year. It might happen after first year or the beginning of second semester. But the sooner you find out the better because usually before first semester of 2nd year or a few weeks into 2nd year, you will have on campus interviews. So you want to target the right firms.

Why not give a straight answer to what you want to do? I am uncertain of what type of law I want to work in, and if you could, would you please share more about this part of corporate law you mention. If not, no worries.

Mon Ami Gabi

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Rough Equivalencies
« Reply #16 on: October 07, 2005, 03:59:31 PM »
Top 25% T2/3/4 = Top 50% T1
"Tear down that female dog of a bearing wall and put a window where it OUGHT to be!"

Bobo

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Re: Rough Equivalencies
« Reply #17 on: October 07, 2005, 07:12:34 PM »
Top 25% T2/3/4 = Top 50% T1

I would say that is a bit general.  I think there is a pretty big difference between a T2 and a T4.  Even within tiers I think there is a pretty big disparity.  Harvard and Alabama are both T1, but I think one is probably a wee bit better than the other....

tresbuchon

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Re: Top of T4 or transfer T2
« Reply #18 on: October 09, 2005, 09:01:06 PM »
Quote
I would say that is a bit general.  I think there is a pretty big difference between a T2 and a T4.[...]

Not really!