Law School Discussion

LSAT scores in regard to transferring

Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #30 on: March 21, 2006, 05:54:02 PM »

I'm not saying that that's necessarily what you assumed, erstes, but if you did, I'd like to remind you that the minority students fail not because they are really "low-quality" and they were admitted to those schools under affirmative action admission programs, not beacuse they deserved it. When law schools admitted these minority students they were simply recognizing the fact that the latter had been discriminated against in the undergraduate schools, as well as when taking the highly-discriminatory LSAT; by admitting these as-good-as-majority minority students with slightly lower scores they were simply adjusting for the results of that discrimination.

However, when law schools themselves engage in discrimination towards such students later on during the course of their studies in law school, they destroy -- not unintentionally -- what they accomplished via their admission practices. Again, this goes to show that affirmative action admissions are just a political tool to give the impression that law schools are not discriminating against minorities in their admission practices, while sophistically "proving" in the long run that, after all, minorities simply can not measure up with their peers even if they are given the chance.

As enrollment in the nation's law schools grows, black enrollment has declined. In response, the American Bar Association's legal-education committee, which accredits law schools, voted this weekend to monitor law school admissions of minorities more closely. From 1995 to 2005, while enrollment among whites gained by 6%, the number of black law students decreased by about 2%, according to the ABA. The number of black applicants to law schools for entry this year dropped 8% after a 6% decline last year. "It is harder now for blacks to get into the profession," says Leonard Baynes, a professor at St. John's University School of Law in New York.

In 2003, in Grutter v. Bollinger, the U.S. Supreme Court endorsed affirmative action in law-school admissions. "With Grutter, I thought schools would have aggressively pursued diversity, but just the opposite has happened," says Vernellia Randall, a professor at the University of Dayton School of Law in Dayton, Ohio. A study due out next month by St. John's blames declining black enrollment on a magazine: U.S. News & World Report. The magazine's annual law school rankings are based in part on schools' median LSAT scores. As schools try to improve their rankings, they are admitting fewer black students because blacks score, on average, significantly lower than whites on the LSAT, according to the St. John's study. John Nussbaumer, author of the St. John's study, says the emphasis on test scores is about "old-fashioned race discrimination." Some legal academics say they believe that the racial disparity in LSAT scores occurs because blacks and other minorities are less apt to take pricey LSAT preparatory courses or, perhaps, to realize the test's importance for getting admitted to law school. "U.S. News did not make the LSAT a requirement for admission to law schools," says Robert Morse, who oversees the magazine's law-school rankings. The Law School Admission Council, which administers the LSAT, "takes extraordinary steps to make sure we don't have racial insensitivity in the content of the exam," says Philip Shelton, president of the LSAC.

The American Bar Association's legal-education committee didn't address schools' reliance on the LSAT when it voted to strengthen its long-standing requirement that law schools show a "commitment" to diversity. Previously, ABA rules measured a school's commitment by its efforts to recruit a diverse student body. Now, according to the proposed rule changes, the ABA also will measure schools' diversity commitment by these schools' success in admitting minority students. "This makes it clear that [admissions] results are relevant," says John Sebert, who oversees the committee's main function: accrediting law schools. In a majority of states, a person can't become a licensed attorney without graduating from an ABA-accredited law school. The new diversity standard will become binding if it is approved by the ABA's House of Delegates at its annual meeting in August. Committee members say the House of Delegates has never rejected the legal-education committee's recommendations.

Some legal scholars say the ABA should focus more on a school's diversity efforts, not the results achieved. One academic, for example, says it is not up to schools whether admissions offers will be accepted. W.H. "Joe" Knight Jr., dean of the University of Washington School of Law, says his school made offers to 38 African-Americans last year -- a sizable number given the school's 180-student class size. All but three decided on other schools, many of which offered more financial aid. Some practicing lawyers applaud the ABA's proposed rules, hoping they will encourage schools to enroll more minorities. In recent years, law firms have stepped up recruitment of minorities as more companies insist on being represented by a diverse group of lawyers. "It has become extremely competitive to recruit the best minority students," says Lee Miller, co-chief executive of DLA Piper Rudnick Gray Cary LLP's Chicago office.



Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2006, 05:12:46 PM »
Actually, the admissions director at Wash. Univ. in St. Louis told me that they have accepted several Cooley students in the past.  And, they are currently ranked #24.  Further, I know several Cooley students who were accepted at Univ. of Michigan... a top 10 school! 

Erapitt

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Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2006, 07:00:20 PM »
Actually, the admissions director at Wash. Univ. in St. Louis told me that they have accepted several Cooley students in the past.  And, they are currently ranked #24.  Further, I know several Cooley students who were accepted at Univ. of Michigan... a top 10 school! 

Regarding the Michigan acceptees: I don't buy it.  Also, even if it is true, it is the exception, not the rule.  It probably happened one time.  Meanwhile, Cooley has what, 800 plus per class? 

Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #33 on: March 23, 2006, 01:36:40 PM »
I just opened up my acceptance letter from Washington Univ. in St. Louis!!!  It is currently ranked #24 so I'm excited to be in at a top 25 school already.  So, there is hope for all of you at a tier 4 schools wishing to transfer up. 

Best to everyone!

Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2006, 07:24:11 AM »
Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anybody can give me some advice.

I didn't apply to my dream schools (NYU or Columbia) due to my low LSAT score (162, 4.00 GPA). I will be going to a T2 school (or hopefully a mid-range T1 if I get accepted off the waitlist).

I know I will work my ass off during the first year of law school to hopefully get into the top 5% of my class. I want to try and apply as a transfer to the two schools after the first year.

My question is, should I retake the LSAT? I know I can do significantly better if I took it again this fall. Would that be a consideration factor at all?

I know that many of you said schools don't even look at LSAT when transferring. But if I improved (and got into their 25/75 percentile range), would that improve my chances any amount at all?

Thanks for the input.

Erapitt

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Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2006, 08:27:49 AM »
To my knowledge, you cannot take the LSAT exam again once you have begun law school.

Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2006, 09:33:16 AM »
To my knowledge, you cannot take the LSAT exam again once you have begun law school.

I've never heard of that. Where is the legalese that says I can't?

Erapitt

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Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2006, 11:18:06 AM »
The LSAT is an exam for entering law students, not as a means to judge transfer applicants.  Call LSAC if you don't believe me.

Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2006, 12:28:52 PM »
Did you have prior experiences with this? Im just curious.

Technically lsat is for students seeking admission to law schools. Transfer students seek admission (one has to be admitted in order to be able to transfer). Schools claim they look at rankings/gpa/AND LSAT of their transfer applicants. Therefore, based on law schools' transfer admission criteria, LSAT is a factor (whether major or minor is unimportant).

So lsat is not just for entering students but for transfer students as well.

Erapitt

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Re: LSAT scores in regard to transferring
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2006, 12:33:36 PM »
No first hand experience.  I just know this is how it works.  For the third time, call LSAC if you don't believe me.  To my knowledge, you can't retake the LSAT once you start law school. 

ARE YOU SLOW?