I've gotta get out of this place

[marcel1922]

So my school is evil. The thought of transferring has occurred to me. But I'm not sure if it's worth it. I'm hoping some of you out there can help me. My questions are two: 1) I'm at a small, self-satisfied, "intense", fairly conservative, very firm-focused school. Oh, and it's in a bad neighborhood, and the climate sucks. You may have guessed which school by this point, but its name doesn't really matter. What matters is that I'm not happy here. So my question is: how do I know if I'd be happier somewhere else. Maybe law school just blows. Okay, of course law school blows, but perhaps it blows less somewhere other than here. How do I make the decision to leave? How do I find out where I'd be happier? Is transferring even worth the hassle? 2) I'm not looking to transfer up. My grades are fine (average but fine), but I really don't want to go through the hassle of proving myself again. I did that last year. So, can I transfer down? I mean, does anybody do that? For reasons other than academic shame? And how easy is it? I don't want to go too far down the tier, 5 or 10 places, give or take. Will such schools take me just because I come from a better school and my grades are decent? Or is it necessary to jump through hoops no matter what? People out there, please help me.

[misty]

let me guess... either cooley or roger williams

[marcel1922]

No, neither. But I would like to add a word to my previous post: Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a school that is fairly large (at least not small), has a good selection of courses, does not have firm-induced tunnel vison, and has a reasonably happy student body (1st Tier)?

[nezhin]

Add a premium put on teaching and I'm there with you!

[bhvexille]

Does anyone out there have any suggestions for a school that is fairly large (at least not small), has a good selection of courses, does not have firm-induced tunnel vison, and has a reasonably happy student body (1st Tier)?

You just described georgetown.

May I ask why you want a bigger school?  I'm deciding where to go to school and the "big school" thing was actually a turn-off for me.  Maybe you can keep me from making a mistake

[mstiger]

So with you there guys.  My law school blows too - not so much the students, but the facilities and the professors.  If these professors just got off their d**mn f**cking high horses and put themselves in our shoes, they'd realize what a pain in the ass they are!!!  (Venting again, can you tell?)

Today, I found an empty room w/ some chairs and sofas by the library study area and assumed they had just opened up a new study area (since it's connected to the student study area, there was no sign and the door was open).  Some freaking female dog-Ass came by to tell me that it's a faculty lounge area.  Why the f**ck do they need a lounge anyway?  They have their offices; we're the ones struggling to find any quiet place we can to study - and that's what I am paying here to do! 

Such minor incidents taken together have really started to tick me off.  And forget leaving campus during the break to study somewhere else - it takes at least 1/2 hr circling around to find parking.  But does the school care - No!  Do they ask graduating seniors for donations? - Yes!  Am I going to donate? - f**ck no!

Oh, and the law school is in a bad old town as well.  I haven't heard of very many "big" law schools.  Most post-grad programs tend to be fairly small - the incoming class here is about 300/yr now.  So, no luck there.

[marcel1922]

300/yr sounds big to me. There are less than 200/yr at my school.

And to the person who thinks going to a small school is a good idea, imagine this: you've got, say, 195 people in your class. 195 hyper-competitive, egotistical, emotionally immature, horrified people(gotta add horrified, because, face it, these are people who have never received anything less than an A in their lives, all 195 of them, and holy hell, now they're on a curve- pure horror- because none of them, of course, thought to reflect on the law of averages pre-law). Now think about the fact that these 195 basketcases will be with yoy everyday in every class, everywhere you turn, for three years. Everywhere. Because anyone who has told you there is life outside out of law school is a damned fool or a damned liar (and most certainly does not go to my school).  Now picture what life is like suffocated by 195 spastics: high school on Hell. So how, you might ask, how could bigger possibly be better? Variety. We're all awful; every one of us.We're law students, for godsakes. But, perhaps, some a little less awful than others. These will be your friends. Out of 195, maybe two, out of 300, maybe add another one or two. So, the more people who go to your school means a better chance that you can stand some of them. Ok, so that's my tirade on law students. The other reason I think I would prefer a bigger school is course selection (My future is in crim; my law school doesn't really do crim), and, it would be nice to go to a school with more than 15 people in the public interest law society.

As to Georgetown, I've thought of that. It is big, isn't it. Does anyone know anything about Virginia? Penn? Does anyone know if transferring down opens up the possibility of large grants or scholarships?

[missvelociraptor]

Wow.  so chicago sucks that hard eh.

have you looked into michigan, berkeley, and texas? (sheesh i'm becoming quite a texas whore)  I haven't started 1L yet but my impression is that they seem to be the most laid back, and have the best quality of life as well as great teaching faculty.  Also provide lots of opportunities in public interest law with good LRAP programs (that's what i plan on going into myself).  UVA is supposed to be pretty relaxed too, though I don't know about Penn.

[marcel1922]

Yeah, so, ah, no comment.

Thanks for the suggestions though. I think the only thing that dissuades me from Texas is it's in Texas. I just can't see myself in Texas. But it's cheap isn't it? The school and the cost of living, right? It would be nice not to be $150,000 in debt by the time I graduate. I never considered Berkeley because it's quite close to home for me and I don't really like home. Michigan, I don't know. I haven't actually gotten the impression that the students are laid back there. They're not over-the-top, egomanical masters-of-the-universe-in-training like some students I know all too well, but I just didn't get a very good sense of the place when I applied there the first time around. Of course, I clearly did not put as much effort into school shopping as I should have. I have too easily let first impressions sway me. Like the impression of thinking it necessary to remind every applicant 99 times during the admissions process that this school is "intense" is a good thing. Oh, if only intense meant bookish, like I thought it did, rather than cold at the core of one's soul as it turns out it does mean.

So here's another question for anyone who'd like to help a lost soul: If you apply to transfer to schools at which you were accepted when you applied as a 1L but declined, do they factor in their previous acceptance as a good thing or a bad thing? In other words, are they more likely to let someone in as a transfer that they accepted as a 1L, or do they hold a grudge for turning them down? And once again, are they likely to heavily finance someone who is coming from a better school (and I mean better in a U.S. News and World Report kind of way, and not in a morally better kind of way).

Actually, OK, one more thought...supplanting my previous no comment. For people out there applying as a 1L or as a transfer, and considering my recently revealed institution of higher education, I must provide this disclaimer: There are reasons to go to this school. The faculty is brilliant; being taught as a 1L by the legal equivalent of Olympians is both terrifying and exciting. And wonderful. This faculty knows their *&^%. They really know their *&^%. And my classmates are very smart, at least very smart in the way people with high LSAT scores and near limitless capacity for information gathering are very smart (but hey, that's as smart as law students get- we're not expected to be brillaint theorists, only brilliant technicians [which, by the way explains a great deal of my distress in law school. I wanted law to be righteous, and it's only functional]). Anyway, my point is, it's a great school. But only great for people who are highly competitive, pretty damn conservative, know they're going to work in BigLaw and have no interest in doing anything else, a little nerdy, and yes, "intense." I don't like it here, but there are people who really do, who wouldn't trade it for anything, and I actually envy them. So, if you've seen The Paper Chase a few too many times and have thought to yourself, "gee I wish there were still professors like Kingsfield, schools like Harvard before it went soft... because, damnit I could kick ass in a place like that," well, have I got a school for you.

[missvelociraptor]

hmm.  your classmates sound like they were too big of tools or possibly not bright enough to get into the econ program, so they went for the next best thing. My heart was initially set on the school, but after lurking on these boards and doing more research into it, i'm starting to have my doubts.  Especially since their LRAP is so bad to begin with. 

regarding UT, yes texas as a state is pretty awful, but austin is an oasis in a sea of *&^%. and very progressive at that.  so it's not a bad place to spend the next 2 years of your life.  If you're planning to go into academia its placement isn't too great (2%) but other than that it's solid all around.  As an out-of state student your first year would cost 27k tuition but after a year you can declare residency and pay 12k 3L year.  Plus cost of living is indeed very cheap.  $500 should get you a nice 1 BR apt or so.  And you probably could get merit aid if you played up where you transferred from, grades, and UGGPA and LSAT, which i assume was pretty high. Apparently you can also cross-register with the graduate school and take classes there, if that's your cup of tea.  i assume this is the case with all of the big public schools, though. 

Regarding applying to schools where you were accepted but declined, i don't believe they hold it against you, at least from anecdotal experience.  I've known several people who have reapplied to schools that they turned down and they got in fine. I doubt they keep old applications, so they can't really hold it against you, though I may be wrong.  If you are applying as a transfer, all you have to do anyways is emphasize how much you want to attend the school you're transferring to and come up with a plausible reason (you could state the lack of focus in whatever discipline you want to pursue and how you did not realise this until you started law school)  and you'll most likely get in.  With regards to merit aid, not too sure, but I am sure you could easily haggle for it if you wish. An up and comer like Duke is probably going to throw a bucket of cash at you, if you give them a compelling reason for them to do so.