'Distance Learning' = TTT trickery

[DOWNY]

That's right, 'distance learning' is nothing more than a TTT trick to steal your money. Don't fall for these TTTs in disguise- if it's not ABA accredited it is a pile of *&^% and there's no way around that. If it is an "online" or "distance" education, you might as well save the money and just watch Judge Judy all day.

HTH

[Prolodoc]

What is your " opinion " based on?  Are all distance schools like this in your " opinion "?  Later, Prolodoc

[DOWNY]

My "opinion" is based on the fact that none of these douchebags get jobs when they graduate. It's not accident that these TTTs have 30 bar passage rates, terrible job placement and 26K median salaries.

[Prolodoc]

Is this based on current data?  Are you currently in law school, and where, if I might ask?  Later and thanks, Prolodoc

[DOWNY]

yes; yes; univ. minnesota- twin cities

[law543]

What you are saying may be true...however, each individual who does whatever is they do or chooses with regard to law school or any other educational endeavor and decision is done for themselves...not for you. While you may readily impugn those who have not the opportunity to attend a traditional campus as you obviously do...you forget that some of the best legal minds this nation ever produced were done so non-traditionally. Understand, I realize we don't live in pioneer days any longer, and I don't pretend that "DL" is the best way to get a legal education...however, I do know that the education can be on par with most traditional campuses...even if the opportunities after graduation are not.

Understand further that this lack of opportunity after graduation is not due to the quality of the education...but rather to societal standards with regard to legal education. As with most things in our society, the legal world is very elitist...and most are judged not by the caliber of education received...but the caliber of school. An idiot out of Harvard will find a fabulous job while a genius out of Cooley or NWCU will probably find little more than private practice or legal aid. (though there are many success stories with DL).

The relevant issue here is that you should not impugn the choices of those who do not have or have never had the opportunities that might have been afforded to you. Sometimes these opportunities are not because of anything you did or accomplished, and are not based on your own merit...rather it is simply because of good fortune or a wealthy family, or some other factor that was not of your own doing or your own making.

Some of these DL students have worked for years getting through undergrad school, while raising families and holding down jobs, contributing to society each and every day while you, maybe a 23 or 26 year old, has been living on Daddy's dime for the last 4 years and now sits smugly in a campus paid for with more of the family's money, feeling as if you are better than others. And...this is not to say that there aren't those who attend the best schools who work their asses off. I would venture a guess that *most* do.

But...for you to "lord it over" others and make feable attempts to make others feel "less than" you because of your school or the school they attend...goes to the very heart of immaturity, puerility and is very much akin to the spirit of what we all should have left behind when we graduated high school. If it makes you feel superior to others...then by all means, have at it. You do whatever it is that you need to do.

Do not pretend, however, that at the end of the day, you are any better than any other student...or even better than those who may never get the opportunity to attend any college of any kind. Those who make sacrifices and endeavor to accomplish getting a legal education for whatever reason they choose to do so...should be applauded. No matter what sort of school he or she attends. As should you if you are doing so.

But...for pete's sake...grow up.

Law543

That's right, 'distance learning' is nothing more than a TTT trick to steal your money. Don't fall for these TTTs in disguise- if it's not ABA accredited it is a pile of *&^% and there's no way around that. If it is an "online" or "distance" education, you might as well save the money and just watch Judge Judy all day.

HTH

[Prolodoc]

Hear Hear!  I really think that part of the problem is that everyone assumes that you will need to be offered a job out of law school.  I have no intention of looking for a " job ".  I have been self employed for over 30 years ( medicine ), and have every intention of being self employed in the law profession.  I am enrolled in Concord and have been very impressed with the caliber of education afforded there.

My sister graduated from Berkley at the top of her class, has written law textbooks, and many other articles and she feels that the education at Concord is excellent.  Now, who would you chose to listen to?  Moot Point.  Well, I am proud to be a law student of any kind.  And I would GLADLY compare Bar scores with anyone who wishes to when the time comes. 

But, some need the structure of a brick and mortar school, and if I could abandon my patients, I would go that route in a heartbeat, but I cant.  So, it seems that to be in a DL program you need to at least be a self starter, a little more mature, and not expect the road to be easy.

Thank for listening!

Prolodoc

[law543]

Good post. You are right...the average DL student or "night school" student is a bit more motivated than your average student...for the simple reason that those who choose this route are doing so out of necessity or because they've chosen to go back to school later in life. They tend to be much more highly motivated, goal-oriented, and the satisfaction they receive from the education is not measured in "job status" or school rankings...but rather on a personal sense of accomplishment and pride.

It is really sad that many people have to wait until later in life to get it...but better late than never, I say.

Law543

Hear Hear!  I really think that part of the problem is that everyone assumes that you will need to be offered a job out of law school.  I have no intention of looking for a " job ".  I have been self employed for over 30 years ( medicine ), and have every intention of being self employed in the law profession.  I am enrolled in Concord and have been very impressed with the caliber of education afforded there.

My sister graduated from Berkley at the top of her class, has written law textbooks, and many other articles and she feels that the education at Concord is excellent.  Now, who would you chose to listen to?  Moot Point.  Well, I am proud to be a law student of any kind.  And I would GLADLY compare Bar scores with anyone who wishes to when the time comes. 

But, some need the structure of a brick and mortar school, and if I could abandon my patients, I would go that route in a heartbeat, but I cant.  So, it seems that to be in a DL program you need to at least be a self starter, a little more mature, and not expect the road to be easy.

Thank for listening!

Prolodoc

[DOWNY]

Law,
Your criticism of me was pretty well-done, until you began making stupid assumptions. What's this stuff about "Daddy's money"? You don't know my situation.

I have heard time and time again the arguments for online law schools. If I already had a career and felt like getting a JD for the hell of it, then maybe this would be an option.

For someone who wants a job as an attorney, online law schools are TTT trickery. Why? Less than 30% of the grads pass the bar on the first time. The school I attend has had a 99% bar passage rate for the last 5 years. I think this is telling of which option is more advantageous.

Similar discrepancies exist with hiring statistics.

HTH

[law543]

Dear Captain,

If you'll review, you'll notice that the word "maybe" was interjected just before my description of you...which, if you'll be honest, should have been sufficient to regard it as a hypothetical. I used it for illustration purposes, which is why I qualified later by saying that *most* of those in top schools probably work their asses off.

Be that as it may, your opening post was carefully and recklessly (you figure that one out) worded to impugn those who are DL attendees, and it was done for the simple reason, by an educated guess, to somehow make those students feel "less than" you and feel stupid, cheated or embarrassed for going the route they have. You used words like "pile of *&^%" when referring to the education they are getting. If you attend a top school, what possible motive would you have to use such derogatory language toward the choices of another? I can only think of one thing, and it goes to the heart of the psychology behind a person who has a need to tromp on others to bolster themselves, somehow. If this is not you...great.

There was nothing in your original post that would lead the reasonable person to believe that DL would be worth anything to you, that you would pursue it for *any* reason, as you are now suggesting would be a possibility under particular circumstances, and so I can only conclude that you either are backpeddaling, and are trying to make it appear as if you did not say what you actually did...or perhaps you have seen the fallacy of your original post, and have a measure of remorse. Let's hope the latter.

I am very happy of the very high Bar Pass Rate of the school you attend, but this really only speaks of the school...and not necessarily of you. You see, if Jane or Sue or Gary attends the worst school in the nation, but passes with flying colors and aces the bar and obtains a very adept knowledge of the workings of law in its many facets, then the school they attended really says nothing of who they are...not when you get right down to it.

I suppose a person who can only afford one of those bottom schools or who somehow had limitations that kept them from attending a top school...those things might be construed as saying something of the person's value by our societal, arbitrary standards...but in reality, when you cut it down to essential elements, a person's intrinsic worth or lackthereof is not determined by the name of a school...or a brand of shoe...or a particular type of dwelling in which they live...it is determined by the amount of integrity the person has, of what their values consist, and what sort of name they make for themselves with the actions they undertake. Those things are more indicative of who a person is, rather than what emblem appears on the sweater they wear, or what sort of college bumper sticker they display.

I would imagine that a person attending a DL university would be fully aware of the limitations such a route places upon them. Chances are, they have thought long and hard over the choice, and have come to the conclusion they have after much soul-searching and option-considering. After having made this very difficult decision, with which they may now be happy and satisfied, you clomp into the room and reduce their entire educational endeavor in a few carelessly contrived sentences, to little more than a pile of *&^%.

As an aspiring attorney, one should be more careful with ones motives and words. Remember, attending a top school does not a good lawyer or person make. If you were an ass when you applied to law school, chances are you'll be an ass after you graduate, as well, no matter which school it was you attended.

Law543

Law,
Your criticism of me was pretty well-done, until you began making stupid assumptions. What's this stuff about "Daddy's money"? You don't know my situation.

I have heard time and time again the arguments for online law schools. If I already had a career and felt like getting a JD for the hell of it, then maybe this would be an option.

For someone who wants a job as an attorney, online law schools are TTT trickery. Why? Less than 30% of the grads pass the bar on the first time. The school I attend has had a 99% bar passage rate for the last 5 years. I think this is telling of which option is more advantageous.

Similar discrepancies exist with hiring statistics.

HTH