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Author Topic: Detrimental Reliance Hypo  (Read 4206 times)

jeffjoe

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #20 on: November 11, 2004, 10:44:51 AM »
How does that change this hypo?
This doesn't provide any conclusions.  It only begs the question.  did she rely?  Would she take the trip anyway? And so on.

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joshdelight

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2004, 12:39:41 PM »
I don't think it changes the hypo at all.  However, it does provide additional information for analysis (although I am not familiar with the concept "Dean Prosser" mentioned - (btw "Dean Prosser" - imagine how confusing your screenname would be if we were discussing a torts hypo :) ).

I tend to agree, jeffjoe, that the hypo is short on facts and open for interpretation.  My analysis depends on an inference that she relied based on the fact that she knew of the promise and with that knowledge acted in a manner consistent with the promise. Additionally, operating on the assumption that she is making this claim in court, it is doubtful that she'd make the claim if it had no merit whatsoever.  Ultimately, though, these still are inferences and open for debate.

AS a side note that I should probably post as an original topic, isn't it funny that contracts discussions dominate the general board as far as analysis is concerned? It'd be great to discuss more torts or (gasp!) criminal law, or property.  There's got to be tons of great hypos out there dealing with determining the state of title that we're just itching to consider... 
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taterstol

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2004, 03:51:15 PM »
if a promise can reasonably be expected to induce reliance, and it in fact does, then the promissor can be estopped from denying the contract. that part's simple--this is clearly a promissory estoppel case and reliance is appropriate to the extent that justice requires.

reliance expenditures is what is important. the court will not put a value on the 'benefit' she received from the vacation. she did exactly what her uncle's promise intended to induce her to do.

the injustice is not relative to someone's idea of whether a vacation is a good thing. it's relative to her having done exactly what the promise called for, and having spent money in the process with the understanding that she would receive the benefit of the promise.

the injustice is in causing her to take an expensive vacation, which she might not have otherwise taken in order to be prudent with her money, and then denying to reimburse her for her expenses. i agree that it would be an injustice to give her more than her reliance expenses (the full 10k if she actually spent less), so she probably could only receive damages for the amount she can prove she spent.

the courts do rule like this (they don't care if it was a vacation, or a healthy lifestyle, or a new car, etc)... see Hammer v. Sidway and any promissory estoppel case.

Dean Prosser

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #23 on: November 11, 2004, 04:30:43 PM »
An interesting case of (possible) Detrimental Reliance:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1111041coco1.html

Look at item 15...  Detrimental Reliance?


joshdelight

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #24 on: November 11, 2004, 07:22:33 PM »
An interesting case of (possible) Detrimental Reliance:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1111041coco1.html

Look at item 15...  Detrimental Reliance?



Absolutely worth hearing... although I hate to say as much :)

I'm interested to know what you thought of the language of the complaint.  It was very systematic, and it certainly answered as to all of the elements required for all of the c.o.a.'s it asserts. In fact, it seemed like the author was working straight of the R2T with a little Cali jurisdictional twist.
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Dean Prosser

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #25 on: November 11, 2004, 08:22:48 PM »
An interesting case of (possible) Detrimental Reliance:

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1111041coco1.html

Look at item 15...  Detrimental Reliance?



Absolutely worth hearing... although I hate to say as much :)

I'm interested to know what you thought of the language of the complaint.  It was very systematic, and it certainly answered as to all of the elements required for all of the c.o.a.'s it asserts. In fact, it seemed like the author was working straight of the R2T with a little Cali jurisdictional twist.


That is a systemati approach, and the lawyers used the facts to fit the rule, and of course added some "spicy" words, you know, to ease the fit  ;)  Hmmm, let's do that on our exams!

jeffjoe

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2004, 09:48:49 AM »
If you can get a judge to rule that it is an injustice for someone to pay for their own vacation, you can win on promissory estoppel.  More likely the judge will have a good laugh over the idea.
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kristin1644

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2004, 07:45:43 PM »
I think what you need to remember is that it doesn't matter WHAT she spent the money on, but that she relied on the promise of the money and spent it on something.  Compare this hypo to Illustration 1 in Restatement Section 90. Its basically the same idea: 

"A, knowing that B is going to college, promises B that A will give him $5,000 on completion of his course.  B goes to college, and borrows and spends more than $5,000 for college expenses.  When he has nearly completed his course, A notifies him of an intention to revoke the promise.  A's promise is binding and B is entitled to payment on completion of the course without regard to whether his performance was "bargained for"...

In reliance on getting the money from her uncle, the girl in the hypo spent the money.  Refer to the elements in camelbx's post--he's got it right.

jeffjoe

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2004, 12:48:55 PM »
I'm beginning to see that y'all may be right, but I'm going to bet on the judge thinking she's a spoiled brat.   :D

Also consider this idea.  She knows her uncle is broke and a liar........
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camelbx

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Re: Detrimental Reliance Hypo
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2004, 12:59:11 PM »
If that were the case (and theres objective evidence to that effect, not just her subjective idea) then the reliance would not be reasonble