Law School Discussion

Illegal Immigration

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2005, 04:46:56 AM »
Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free.

I remember 9/11, and I remember mexicans in Mexifornia that can sue when someone refers to them as "illegals".  Remember? 

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2005, 06:03:09 PM »
I am a hispanic against illegal immigration.

My father is from El Salvador.  He came here legally by requesting a visa in the 1970's.

My husband is from Chile.  He came here 2 years ago on a student visa, and we are in the process of getting his green card.


(1) If I were in any of the illegal immigrants' shoes, I'd probably do the same thing.  People who are in econcomic conditions good enough to get visas are usually people who don't actually need to leave home.

(2) Offering free and subsidized health care and other social benefits to illegal alients makes Public Health sense, but is idiotic in terms of fiscal and legal policy.

In California, where I'm from, illegal immigrants can enroll in these health care programs, but my husband--who came here legally--cannot.  In fact, it is a condition of his green card that he not be an economic burden to society for the next 40 quarters.  That's 10 years.  As his green card petitioner, I am financially responsible for anything he does during that time--even if we are divorced before that time is up.  But illegal immigrants can enroll in these health care programs with no problems.

Also, in California, children of illegal immigrants can pay IN-STATE tuition at Junior Colleges and Universities.  All they have to do is sign a form saying that they will take the necessary steps to legalize their status as soon as they ARE ELIGIBLE to do so.  No deadline.  For many, this will never happen--or they have to have a kid first, and then get their immigration through them (another loophole).

In-State tuition at Junior College here is $26/unit.  Meanwhile, my husband--who came here legally--has been paying the Out-of-State rate of $173/unit.

Do things legally, get kicked in the shins.

Risk your life and actually make it--free (or deeply discounted) ride.

This is NOT ok...

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2005, 10:22:07 PM »
When did it become the United States' responsibility for the conditions created by the Mexican government? Is the U.S. to be held responsible for the living conditions of each and every country in the world? To be the recipient  of every individual who "thinks" he/she can make a better living in the U.S.? Without any restrictions or limitations?  ???

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #13 on: April 14, 2005, 12:32:57 AM »
"...Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

Part of the poem written by Emma Lazarus, a Jewish American poet, and it's carved into the pedestal for the statue of liberty.  The French gave the United States the statue, and the poem was our addition.  The poem was the art that we, as a nation, selected to represent us when we erected the symbol of our freedom, the symbol for our country.

To the previous poster who wrote:

Legal immigrants (my grandparents and father, for example)...

I can only respond that, in some sense, the only truly "legal" immigrants to the United States were those brought over against their will (African Americans).  Because we've conveniently forgotten that Europeans didn't "discover" America.  We stole it.  Now we've not only stolen it, but we take the position that we have the right to say who will come and who will go.  That's the height of arrogance.  Most poor Mexican citizens have a substantial amount of Native American blood.  And we think we have the right to say to them that they don't have a right to living in the regions that were stolen from them? 

And to say that "illegals" don't contribute to our society is flat-out wrong.  They do, in fact, pay taxes.  They pay income taxes, sales tax, and they help support our social security system.  The notion that illegal immigrants are paid under the table is usually wrong.  Normally they have some sort of fake documentation to get jobs in places like meat packing plants, restaurants, etc.  Or they do things like migrant work.  But in those cases they do in fact pay social security and income taxes.  And, of course, they buy American products and pay sales taxes.

The biggest problem, though, that I have with the "my grandfather came here legally" argument is that nobody faces the fact that eighty years ago in America -- or a hundred or a two hundred years ago -- there wasn't really such a thing as "illegal immigration."  It would only be illegal, for instance, if you had some sort of serious illness that would prove to be a danger.  Otherwise we pretty much stuck to our setiment that we have on our statue of liberty:

"...Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!

This is a beautiful idea.  It's beautiful that were saying that America is not just for those trying to protect their wealth or positions.  We're saying that America is a place for people who're suffering poverty and oppression.  We're saying that America is for the "masses" who don't fit other places.  That America is an open door for a new start. 

But we've lost this.  And I think it's one of the greatest threats to America.

Instead of calling people, "illegal" or "legal," how about we just try to keep track of people coming into the country.  That's what ellis island was for, and we can do it again.  Do you really think people would sneak through the dessert if we really let them in legally -- if we stuck to what is written on our statue of liberty?

But we won't do that.  We're too concerned with what we have, with protecting our position in the world and protecting our wealth.  We'd rather see others suffer to serve ourselves.   


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Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #14 on: April 14, 2005, 11:57:21 PM »
... there is a big difference between "legal" and "lawful".  I could not agree more that immigrants contribute tremendously to our culture and economy.  However, this country is envied throughout the world for its virtues, for it's freedoms.  And we must protect the freedoms of those who are vulnerable to uncontrolable outside forces.

...Just as  homeless has a right to be homless, then a wealthy person has a right to arrange contingenies to insure that homless stays that way and more join his ranks.  So, who's rights shall we protect?

... this approach to freedom is inharintly dangerouse.  After all, if wolfs would make all the laws, rabits would be extinct.

Example:  We should allow the gay coalition to make parties for 13-year-old boys in their public schools;
          We should allow divorced women to structure child support schedules;
          We should allow anyone to file charges aginst Michael Jackson and have him prosecuted accordingly;
          We should allow ABA schools to cut the oxegen off to all those who get around the system and get admittied to bar exams.

... so, who's freedom should we protect? 

I always remember that each system acts to protect its own survival and not those it appears to serve!

And yes, we should allow all members of alkidah to rent a room in the White House right next to the bedrom of President Bush.  They just have to pay rent and be properly registered......  ???
Chap - Roswell, GA

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #15 on: April 15, 2005, 09:31:58 AM »

If wolves made all the laws, the rabbits wouldn't be extinct, they'd be serving the wolves. 


Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #16 on: April 16, 2005, 09:18:40 PM »
...[illegal immigrants] do, in fact, pay taxes.  They pay income taxes, sales tax, and they help support our social security system. 

Um, are you insane?  Illegals, by and large, work under the table.  They pay sales tax (as does everyone else) and that's about it.  You think they file federal tax returns to uncle Sam?  That's a trip...

I'll make a deal with you:  Find me some immigrants--poor ones or rich ones-who are here illegally.  Show me that they don't use things they don't pay for; that they don't go to the ER, for example, or send their kids to public school without paying any state taxes.

Show me that they feel at least a bit guilty about breaking the law, at least technically.  Better yet, (and I get this from you) let them show me that they feel SO guilty they've been mailing checks to the US government to pay their taxes and social security, even though they can't draw on SS as illegals. 

now _those_ would be some immigrants who I would happily sponsor for citizenship.

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #17 on: April 16, 2005, 10:46:28 PM »
I'm hesitant to even reply to your post.  Those who you only will refer to as "illegals" are just people.  They're people who're struggling so much in life that they've risked their lives to come to a totally strange country where they don't even speak the language and where they aren't wanted.  And they do it b/c they and their families are suffering more than they can bear.

And you expect them to feel guilty? 

What gives you the right?  You're lucky to have been born in America.  You're lucky that your ancestors had the technology to kick their ancestors out of the country, and to enslave other people to make this country rich.

And you think you have the right to demand that they feel guilty? 

It's this kind of mean spirited selfishness that I just can't take.  I, for one, will not protect myself at someone else's expense.  I won't live in luxury when another person is inprisoned in a state of poverty.  If you will, fine.  But I sure as hell hope there's a god that puts you on trial for it someday b/c it is a true crime.

Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #18 on: July 02, 2005, 12:59:52 PM »
well... interesting board... few little points... 1. stop getting so pissy everyone, its a debate, not an all out fist fight. 2. most "illegal" immigrants take plenty, give little when it comes to public services, anyone who has worked in any public service realizes this (public schools, public highways, etc) 3. one of the most upsetting things is that the newest wave of immigrants, and yes primarily from mexico, do not speak english and do not even try. not only that, but in my business (im currently in banking, start law in the fall) they get pissed that i dont. im in texas and that is normal amongst many businesses, they are angry we dont speak spanish. im sorry, my family was german/irish/native american, my wifes polish and irish, and they tried their hardest to become part of the "melting pot". not make it a sald bowl.
"one bourbon, one scotch, and one beer"
now that is a study break


Re: Illegal Immigration
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2005, 02:36:06 PM »
I am for greater immigration with a few regulations.

I recently went to NY and saw the Statute of Liberty. It made me think. I believe we should allow immigration as we once did.

The following regulations make sense to me.

1. No criminal background, unless proven to be unjust by our standards.
2. No disease, nothing communicable period
3. Pass a cultural/basic language test. We should provide the class teaching our viewpoint of history and Basic English. "Thank you" would be a good place to start.
4. A loyalty pledge, stating they will follow our laws and if convicted of a felony they will leave.

If I thought about this more maybe I'd add a few regulations, but these seem like enough.

On a side note, illegal immigrants don't pay income taxes. Even if they are on a payroll they simply claim 10 dependants so few taxes are taken out and they never file a tax return. I worked in a restaurant for 5 years, 1 year with payroll, I know. Some legal immigrants do the same. I knew the illegal immigrants only because they told me they were illegal.