Concord Law School

[DOWNY]

It would seem that some people need validation of the choice of law school.  Trashing other schools helps.  Don't pay any attention.  it's just a symptom of downy syndrome.

Any education is the product of what one puts into it.  DL learing is not for everyone. It is mostly for the self starters who do not need a push every once in awhile. I was educated in one of the top residencies in the nation and knew of great students and poor ones who came from this program.  There is no magic formula in learning the law.  Just hard work and study.  You get back what you put into it.  JMHO.  Later, Prolodoc

I didn't trash his school. I said the reality is that people look down on distance education. He then flamed me.

I looked at his blog- he actually has a link on there with part of an article that says "some firms will not hire ABA grads." This person is clearly jaded and has no idea what the legal profession is about.

Jeffjoe, thank you for your ridiculous response. Please, tell me all the virtues of attending non-accredited online law schools. I'm sure I can learn the "errors" of my ways.

D

[DOWNY]

Did I say you trashed him?  That would be ridiculous after an undeniable posting.

I see you are honing in on my use of the term "undeniable," so I will defend it.

It is undeniable that accredited, brick and mortar law school students in general (to allow for exceptions that don't break the general trend) look down on distance learning. Law firms, in general, do this as well. Maybe you can prove me wrong and demonstrate that these statements are not, in fact, undeniable. I don't think you can.

[DOWNY]

Can there be an undeniable opinion?  Sounds like downy syndrome to me.

Did I say you trashed him?  That would be ridiculous after an undeniable posting.

I see you are honing in on my use of the term "undeniable," so I will defend it.

It is undeniable that accredited, brick and mortar law school students in general (to allow for exceptions that don't break the general trend) look down on distance learning. Law firms, in general, do this as well. Maybe you can prove me wrong and demonstrate that these statements are not, in fact, undeniable. I don't think you can.

My point was not that the opinion itself is undeniable (hence my claim two posts above that even if Concord is a good school, people will still look down on it). My claim is that it is undeniable that there is a widespread low opinion of unaccredited and DL schools.

In any group of different entities there will be a hierarchy. If you refuse to accept that Concord and DL may not be at the top of the pile, that's your problem.

[DOWNY]

Sure, but Concord/DL will face this distaste much more often than ABA schools.

I don't care if people want to go to Concord, but to female dog about what a great school it is sounds ridiculous.

[sharkfish]

I didn't trash his school. I said the reality is that people look down on distance education. He then flamed me.

I looked at his blog- he actually has a link on there with part of an article that says "some firms will not hire ABA grads." This person is clearly jaded and has no idea what the legal profession is about.

That was a quote posted verbatim, not my opinion.  I inserted a possible correction of what the quotee probably meant to say.  The quotee could very well have meant that some ABA lawyers don't cut the mustard in the working world:  everyone knows of ABA lawyers who never break into the field.

As far as "flaming" you:  how thin-skinned you are!  I only pointed out the fact that you are a child still depending on his/her parents and so your opinion must be considered in that context.  Those of us who do not have a trust fund or substantial financial means are going to be more likely to consider options.  Those of us who have goo-gobs of money to spend on an iffy profession are certainly going to make elitist statements.

I don't care what YOU think so much as I care that others may not consider all their options because someone on a forum who is in a completely different situation has a view that **may/may not** be based in reality.

I went to an elite near-Ivy school in the midwest for my undergraduate education and the elitism was simply not warranted.  There are mediocre graduates and stellar graduates, same as any school.

The time will come when everyone truly has access to good education;  that time has not come yet because the "elites" are too busy trying to preserve their position.  If I pass the bar, I am no less qualified than any other newly graduated lawyer, no matter what school they went to.

Elite schools exact their toll, requiring the kind of "payback" for joining the club that ruins lives if you allow it. 

This is a great article with an attached pdf on the subject and everyone should read it for a dose of reality about the legal profession:

http://www.dljd.net/2005/01/why-big-law-isnt-in-my-range.html

And here is one on exactly what the ABA requires of its members:

http://www.dljd.net/2005/01/aba-monopoly-exposed.html

[dgatl]

Sharkfish:

I took an opportunity to read the second link (and the report attached to the second link).

In your link, you laugh at why, in this information technology age, the ABA requires law schools to keep vast libraries.

Hmmm...  I don't know.  I wonder why I see so many practicing attorneys in the law library at my law school.  I wonder why, during my job interview last week, I saw an attorney consulting a reporter.

Maybe it's because Lexis and Westlaw are VERY EXPENSIVE such that 1) small firms can't afford it or 2) a growing number of clients (of even big law firms) refuse to be billed for it.  Additionally, as someone that was forced to "use the books" last semester for legal writing, I appreciate the ability to use a reporter (or multiple reporters) simultaneously to construct the correct rule of law applicable, and perform the necessary comparisons.  Many legal sources may not be available electronically, but are available in print.  I doubt that your future legal career (if you have one) will not involve you using the books.

2:  You say that ABA-control is "Un-Constitutional".  This is ridiculous.  Every profession, including doctors, CPAs, dentists, have some kind of a licensing board.  If a state supreme court chooses to recognize a school not approved by the ABA, that is their choice (bc typically the non-ABA school gears its instruction to the state law).  However, the ABA sets a general guideline so that the Supreme Court of Washington doesn't have to worry whether a University of Miami graduate is capable of practicing law in Washington state.  Your "Un-constitutional" comment adds a nice bit of drama to your blog, but is pretty asinine.

3:  The linked report on ABA was created by a distance law student for his professor.  Enough said. 

OWNED

[DOWNY]

How is it unlawful? The ABA is not obligated to accredit any law school. Accreditation is reserved for schools that meet ABA guidelines of sufficiency and competence. If a school like Cooley can meet ABA requirements, it cannot be that hard.

Also, isn't any necessary regulatory agency a "monopoly" in the sense that it is unitary? The alternative would be an even greater deluge of bad law schools and crappy lawyers.

If anything, the ABA should reduce the amount of schools that are accredited. There are already too many TTTs that do a disservice to their students and to the profession.

[dgatl]

i think all accreditation agencies should be destroyed.  i would prefer to have my highways and bridges engineered by students of questionable qualifications, and get heart surgery done by a doctor who got an online MD degree.  oh, and if a friend is falsely arrested and charged with capital murder, I think anyone with a JD, even if there is a proliferation of online JD colleges that grant credit for life experiences and the attorney of question received his JD from there, should be allowed to help keep my friend off death row.

[sharkfish]

I'm still laughing.  I have access to Lexis/Nexis.  I don't need a brick and mortar library that I can tell. 

So you pay those tens of thousands in tuition for a library?  For professors that are not allowed to make money to support themselves?



Do any distance learning students here feel they need a physical library? 


You don't answer any of the issues regarding why the ABA requires 8 hours max teaching time by professors, and minimum of six full time professors.

I hope you do better in forming argument as a lawyer.  Calling me asinine does not an argument make.  Also, I've noticed that the weakest debaters always point to the credibility of the author, rather than the statements therein.



There's no question that ABA has ensured a decent legal education for ABA school students.  The question I have is the ABA protecting a fiefdom, or are they helping MORE people get a better education?  My argument is that the ABA places trivial limitations.

I could hardly argue with the ABA if they set reasonable standards.   They are way behind the times.  Kind of like the lawyers I know who can't and won't grasp technological advancements. 

[DOWNY]

Libraries that don't involve logging into Yahoo are nice, yes, but that is not the reason people attend ABA schools. ABA schools are attractive to law firms, and online law schools are not. That is the simple answer- please feel free to make sarcastic and ridiculous claims against this obvious truth.

Also, I don't know anything about Concord's legal writing program (assuming of course that one exists) but you may want to learn how to use proper grammar and spelling. The Career Services Office at my ABA school says that employers like these skills.

HTH