Comments on Howard

[Amanda H.]

Hotel - I agree to a certain point.  AA, though, is meant to right a social wrong not just to provide opportunity. I think there needs to be more of a commitment to it.  In my opinion, it is my reparations and helps to elevate the black community. i.e. Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice.  I have never attended an HBCU but I understand why some do.  I was always taught to get the same education as the majority but believe me it sometimes gets hard because of prejudices.  Howard is good for some but probably not for me.  Wanting a diverse student body is probably going to be a factor in my getting admitted and it should be.    

Just out of curiousity, what exactly do you mean by "my reparations"? 

Also, it should probably be noted that Howard is far less diverse than most schools.

To me, affirmative action is about helping people who are disadvantaged as a result of past discrimination.  If you're disadvantaged, you should arguably receive help, if you're not, you probably shouldn't. 

And if we're really focused on fairness, per se, it's not really clear why all disadvantaged people aren't treated similarly.  After all, to the individual, it doesn't really matter why they're disadvantaged - it only matters that they are.

Diversity per se may be a worthwhile goal, but I'm not sure it justifies the kind of pure ethnic discrimination we're presumably trying to move away from.  An economic focus would presumably account for any past and current discrimination, while not engaging in new discrimination.

Anyway, that's just my opinion.  Schools are going to do whatever they want to do, at least within the limits of what the courts allow.  And maybe being white/asian will help some students get into Howard as that school searches for greater diversity. 

[monimone]

Dear Amanda,
AA is my reparations.  I don't know if you have ever attended a failing school because it is the closest school to your black neighborhood.  Or if you have ever been pulled over because you are black.  Having an education will help to right those wrongs by putting those same discriminating blacks back into their communities to combat these transgressions.  AA may be needed for Howard but guess what?  Howard is not a public school it is private so they are not subject to the same regulations unless they take some type of federal funding.  Until you step in the shoes of a black man in America, you will not understand the importance of AA. 

P.S.  Statistically I was more likely to be in prison than to be accepted to the Tier 1 law school that I was accepted to.

[KappaOne]

P.S.  Statistically I was more likely to be in prison than to be accepted to the Tier 1 law school that I was accepted to.

True that!!! I'm with you there. That's one way to put things in true perspective.

[Amanda H.]

Dear Amanda,
AA is my reparations.  I don't know if you have ever attended a failing school because it is the closest school to your black neighborhood. 

I have not, but many white kids also attend failing schools.  Should they also get AA?

Also, what about the many black students that do not attend failing schools.  Should they get AA?

Or if you have ever been pulled over because you are black. 

Even if this happens, how does preferential admissions compensate for this?

I've been pulled over repeatedly for driving an old, crappy car.  Should I get preferential admissions for this?

Having an education will help to right those wrongs by putting those same discriminating blacks back into their communities to combat these transgressions. 

But most educated African-Americans leave those poor communities, don't they?

And unless they've actually faced failing schools, etc., they shouldn't really need preferential admissions to get into law school, right?  (I've already noted that disadvantage, per se, should be taken into account.) 

AA may be needed for Howard but guess what?  Howard is not a public school it is private so they are not subject to the same regulations unless they take some type of federal funding.

 


Actually, it's easier to use AA if you're private.  The recent lawsuits were against Michigan specifically because it was public, and it's harder for public institutions to discriminate in this manner. 

(Personally, I don't have a problem with Howard being mostly black, as some minorities may prefer learning in this kind of environment.  I'm just observing that's its not as diverse as most places.  But diversity, in my opinion, is not always the highest ideal either, as you seem to agree.) 

Until you step in the shoes of a black man in America, you will not understand the importance of AA. 

Maybe not, that's why I'm asking. 

I see what you're saying. I just think that, unless someone is actually disadvantaged, they shouldn't get preferential admissions, as it tends to perpetuate racism. 

P.S.  Statistically I was more likely to be in prison than to be accepted to the Tier 1 law school that I was accepted to.

Possibly, but what does this really tell us?

It seems to me we'd be far better off if we just fixed those failing schools, so everyone would have an equal starting point.  At that point (and even now), we could just judge people based on their actual economic background, as opposed to making assumptions based on skin color. 

Anyway, these issues should probably be discussed on the AA board anyway, and I don't mean to hijack this thread.  I was just honestly curious what you meant by reparations.  I do think that people who are poor because of historical discrimination should have that taken into account, so in that sense, I can relate to the idea.  On the other hand, there are many minorities that are better off than most whites, and the "reparations" argument doesn't seem to apply in that context.  The idea that we need more minority lawyers to combat unfair policies makes more sense, though I wouldn't call that reparations.  I just think it needs to be weighed against the other effects. 

Anyway, that's all, and I do think Howard is probably a good choice for minority law students.

[davisxa]

The facilities were very poor.  There was no wireless internet in the classrooms or even hookups for laptops.  It reminded me of an old AME church.  The people seemed to be putting there best FACE foward and seemed disingenuous.  I sat in for a mock classroom and the teacher seemed to be very abrasive.  She made people feel stupid rather than being inviting.  I go to UF right now and I receive an Ivy league education but I have never had any teachers like that lady.  It was just very disappointing.

I think that the abrasive, humiliating quality you are speaking of is not unique to Howard... That's the difference between undergrad and law school. It's called the Socratic method. I took law classes in my undergrad and it was like that. I used to have nightmares about my prof. Try checking out other schools' classes and see if there is a huge difference.

As far as the apologetic best-face-forward disingenuous thing, I went to the UC Hastings admitted student day thing recently and felt the same way. On the other hand, it must be wierd for a bunch of stressed out law students to have to deal with selling their school to prospective students. I dunno.

[fliingdutchmn]

I go to UF right now and I receive an Ivy league education

Wow, I'm graduating next month with an Ivy League education!  Really, I would have never known. 

go gators.

[monimone]

You know it kills me when caucasions claim to know what the best cure for the effects of hundreds of years of slavery and segragation.  Don't act as if you know what the cure is to a problem you don't understand.  Atleast attempt to take off your blinders so that you may understand.  The fact of the matter is, when you go to a department store you are seen as a customer not a black customer.  When you enter law school, it probably won't be suprising when you tell someone "oh I'm at such and such law school."  Until you have walked in a black persons shoes and felt the effects of racism, don't talk.  There have been countless studies conducted that prove that even an ethnic name will limit your opportunities.  As for the argument of poor caucasions, that is a different subject.  Their poorness is not due to the color of their skin.  How many rich caucasions are there compared to blacks?  There is a high correlation between being black, lack of education and being in poverty.  A study recently conducted by The Urban League suggests that on average any black family's assets is ten percent of that of a white counterpart.  Do not make the mistake of confusing poverty with the principle reasons for AA.  The caucasions were the ones who promised 40 acres and a mule, we haven't got that yet.  The least that can be done to repay blacks for their four hundred years of service or slavery to this country is to give us a level playing field for admissions.  We still have to perform just as well as the next once we get in.  You paid the chinese for their work on the railroads why then the double standard.  A philosopher by the name of Jaques Roussieu said that there are two things that makes one man unequal to the next, education and environment.  And believe me, one begets the other.   

[monimone]

Florida is nicknamed the Ivy League of the South.  Some have claimed that we get a lexus education for an escort price and I believe that.  UF's name can go a long way for you.  And I know the quality of instruction that I have gotten is superb.  Plus we have more National Merit Scholars than any university including HARVARD YALE AND PRINCETON!!! I have gotten many opportunities b/c of my being a Gator and I'm sure that many more will come after I graduate from Levin College of Law.

[monimone]

AA is more likely to happen at a private institution.  Wow, thats why we have Bob Jones University and the like.  Look, private institutions are not subject to the same regulations as a public school.  Public schools in some states, not Florida, have affirmative action legislation that REQUIRES active recruitment of minorities.  Compare private schools and the percentage of minorities attending.  I guarantee you that they are not nearly as representative as a public school.  I wonder why?  Other than not having AA requirements maybe its cost.  That brings up another issue.  How can we afford to pay high tuition if we don't even get the opportunity to pursue higher education.  Affirmative Action seeks to end this cycle of low income families producing future low income families.  And it has been working slowly but surely.  Maybe if folks quit attacking and embrace the tenets behind it we can grow more as a nation.

[the REAL desi]

as a gator grad, i can assure you that it is not the harvard of the south.