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[Xony]

Terri isn't exactly kept in the prison of her body.  She isn't aware of anything or anyone, herself included.  She isn't suffering.

[I hear America singing]

I wouldn't want to die based on a "best guess".

I, Terri, and upwards of 80% of people would not want to be kept alive in a prison of our own bodies, completly unaware of the outside world. That being said I think that whatever spirt/soul/essance that was her is long gone.

Do you want a laundry list of all the atrocities that Americans have supported at one point or another?  Plurality has no room in a discussion on morality.

[jacy85]

Just to reiterate my point...

my beating heart doesn't make me human. Pigs that wallow in their own *&^% have those.

My lungs don't make my human.  My roommate's turtle has a working set of those.

What makes me human is my mind.  My thinking, feeling brain, that I use to make decisions, love my SO, yearn for knowledge, etc.  This is what makes us different.  The ancients thought a lot about this.  It's actually important for the Christian faith, placing man above the animals.

So when my mind is gone, I'm no longer human.  And most people don't want to survive like that.

[JonR0921]

What would happen legally if someone (her parents or a protestor) did manage to break in and wet her lips with a sponge or piece of ice?  They'd be breaking the law obviously, but can you really see someone being led away in handcuffs for moistening the lips of a dying woman? 

Yes...as you conceded, that'd be breaking the law. And they'd be handcuffed like anyone else that breaks the law.  Seems simple to me.

[Xony]

but Jacy, the question wasn't "is Terri human?" it was "is she alive?"  And you've given great answers and I completely agree w/ you

Why is it always the Christians fighting these issues?  Why dont we have buddhists trying to smuggle food in? or Jews?  or Muslims


What is the deal here?

[giffy]

The count is now at 47:  A man was tasered by police for resisting arrest.  He was carrying two water bottles.  Imagine that scene for a moment.

In 2005, a man was tasered by police in an effort to bring water to a dying woman.  I disagree vehemently with his tactics but admire his dedication to an ideal.

What would happen legally if someone (her parents or a protestor) did manage to break in and wet her lips with a sponge or piece of ice?  They'd be breaking the law obviously, but can you really see someone being led away in handcuffs for moistening the lips of a dying woman?  If it were caught on camera, it would surely be one of those Elian Gonzalez moments that would galvanize the nation.

Thye should be arrested and throwen in Jail for infringing on her rights. I don't think parents should take kids to Church becasue it is bad for them, should I kidnap them. I don't think people whould eat meat, should I break into thier house and take it away. What about cigarets should I take a smoke out of someones mouth becasue I think it will kill them. These arrogent fuckers trying to force their beleifs on Terri should get lengthy prison sentances. Having beleis and convictions is one thing. Forcing them on others is arrogent, self-centered, and often illegal. Why don't they find some productive to do with their time (adopt some kids, build house, feed the hungry)  and leave the self-service publisity bull to real celebrities. 

Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

We can remove a heart from a body and get it to beat. Hell we can make a dead body move around a bit. Life is in the brain not the heart the lungs, the feat, or anyother place. No brain no life.

So you believe she is dead?  Should I grind her up now for fertilizer?  Maybe you could save the family some money and cremate her right now.  She can't scream, after all.  And I'm sure the hospital would love to be informed that they have a dead body in their midst.  The CDC would probably want to investigate how it can blink its eyes.  Hell, call Fox and Mulder.

Yes. I think she is for lack of a better word Spiritually dead. She is however biologically alive. For example a house plant is biologically alive, but many would not say it is spiritually alive. just as a heart about to be transplanted is alive, but it is not the life we talk about when we talk about the life of the person either giving or recieving the organ.

I wouldn't want to die based on a "best guess".

I, Terri, and upwards of 80% of people would not want to be kept alive in a prison of our own bodies, completly unaware of the outside world. That being said I think that whatever spirt/soul/essance that was her is long gone.

Do you want a laundry list of all the atrocities that Americans have supported at one point or another?  Plurality has no room in a discussion on morality.

This is peoples beleifs about what they want to happen to themseves. Why would it be an atrocity for peopel to want to die in a situation like this. I think the atrocity might go the other way. i also think there is room for public opinion to enter in to the discussion. We are all we have for deteriming morality, whether we create gods to express it or do so ourselves.   

[Xony]

I totally agree..I Just felt like we were going off track slightly.  Everything Jacy said I totally agree with.

I would feel sad putting a dog, a pig, or a turtle in a room w/no food or water, but not Terri.

dog, pig, turtle would suffer - not Terri.

[I hear America singing]

I don't think parents should take kids to Church becasue it is bad for them, should I kidnap them. I don't think people whould eat meat, should I break into thier house and take it away. What about cigarets should I take a smoke out of someones mouth becasue I think it will kill them. These arrogent fuckers trying to force their beleifs on Terri should get lengthy prison sentances. Having beleis and convictions is one thing. Forcing them on others is arrogent, self-centered, and often illegal. Why don't they find some productive to do with their time (adopt some kids, build house, feed the hungry)  and leave the self-service publisity bull to real celebrities.  

Finally, someone actually calling these jesus wacko "Terry saviors" exactly what they are. Just about everyone has got a jesus-nut somewhere in the family. If i die and am left in a PVS, i don't want the lone jesus-wacko in the family to have the ability to usurp my stated wishes. It's precisely this kind of activity that gives christianity such a bad rap.

I have to go tutor now but I'll leave with this:

It's easy to pigeonhole me into a "jesus wacko" corner because then it's easier to deal with me.  I've said time and time again that I respect the law and that I vehemently disagree with the actions of the protestors.  On this giffy and I agree.

I'm not a fundamentalist.  I haven't been to church in over two years, I believe.  I'm not exactly proud of this, but I don't sit at home polishing my Bible and memorizing scripture either.  Hell, giffy probably knows more about the Bible than I do.

In the same vein, I don't see people who disagree with me as being God-haters intent on killing everyone who can't eat.  It is possible for intelligent people to agree on difficult decisions.  There are idiots and geniuses on both sides of this fence- I try to always assume that people are multifaceted when engaging in discussion.

If you want to categorize me based on my beliefs based on one particular issue, feel free.  Just know that's it's not true.

[Xony]

I suppose Terri also receives disability pay.  Nice!

I wonder if her parents get to keep that.

[I hear America singing]

IHAS, you are displaying your latent desire for persecution/martyrdom. I never mentioned you in my quote above. I referred to the "Terry saviours". Are you actually taking legal action and protesting in an attempt to circumvent Terry's stated wishes? If so, you're an arrogant jesus-wacko. If not, you're not.

I'm no martyr- I don't have the balls for it.  But there are people on this board who seem to be latently condescending to me because my beliefs are different from theirs.  Criticize the beliefs- that's fine.  You yourelf called my diction "church language", which intimates a religious connotation I never established.

There are people who value life at any cost who have no connection to God or gods.  I just wanted to clear up the misconception that only fundamental Christians want her to live.