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JonR0921

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #150 on: March 29, 2005, 03:47:49 PM »
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

I suppose you also think that a clump of cells in a woman's uterus is also alive. 

And you propose that biologically they are not?
She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

If her heart stopped of its own accord, her parents would want her hooked up to other machines and we'd be right back at square one. They are determined to keep her body alive by any means.

I don't have a problem with pulling the plug on respirators- if there's no chance, let me go.  But starving her is inhumane.  Someone mentioned earlier that she can't ingest food on her own.  Where does this slippery slope end?  What if it goes from not being able to swallow to not being able to physically place the food in your mouth?  Is feeding a parapalegic considered "life support"?  You are basically ensuring their survival.  Likewise, a baby can't eat unless you help it.  Could mothers cut off "life support" and let their babies die?  I'm sure there are some lawyers that would argue the point.  If grandma breaks her hip and can't reach the top shelf for food, do we slowly let her die?

Terri's body wants fuel.  Right now, every cell in her body is screaming to survive, since it's the utmost instinct we have.  I consider withholding something somebody needs to live to be murder.

Pulling out the feeding tube is equivalent in my book to sucking all the oxygen out of the room.  Her stomach works, it just needs the raw material.

No, her parents want her body to have the raw material.  By the family's own admission, Terri is "past the point of no return."  She has no idea that she doesn't have raw material, nor does she have the capacity to want it.

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #151 on: March 29, 2005, 03:49:10 PM »
Terri has no self-awareness.  Terri has no brain.  Our efforts should be focused on saving people who have hope.  This is ridiculous.

jacy85

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #152 on: March 29, 2005, 03:50:18 PM »
A baby can feel hunger, and cry to alert the adults around it.

The same with a parapalegic.  And your grandmother.

Terri is likely unaware she is hungery.  Her brain, according to the experts, no longer has to capicity to turn her reflexes into emotion/sensation, from what I understand.

She's not sitting there suffering, thinking, "man, I'm hungry and thirsty"  *That's* the fundamental difference from each and every situation you've compared her to.

giffy

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #153 on: March 29, 2005, 03:52:06 PM »
The count is now at 47:  A man was tasered by police for resisting arrest.  He was carrying two water bottles.  Imagine that scene for a moment.

In 2005, a man was tasered by police in an effort to bring water to a dying woman.  I disagree vehemently with his tactics but admire his dedication to an ideal.

What would happen legally if someone (her parents or a protestor) did manage to break in and wet her lips with a sponge or piece of ice?  They'd be breaking the law obviously, but can you really see someone being led away in handcuffs for moistening the lips of a dying woman?  If it were caught on camera, it would surely be one of those Elian Gonzalez moments that would galvanize the nation.

Thye should be arrested and throwen in Jail for infringing on her rights. I don't think parents should take kids to Church becasue it is bad for them, should I kidnap them. I don't think people whould eat meat, should I break into thier house and take it away. What about cigarets should I take a smoke out of someones mouth becasue I think it will kill them. These arrogent fuckers trying to force their beleifs on Terri should get lengthy prison sentances. Having beleis and convictions is one thing. Forcing them on others is arrogent, self-centered, and often illegal. Why don't they find some productive to do with their time (adopt some kids, build house, feed the hungry)  and leave the self-service publisity bull to real celebrities. 
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

We can remove a heart from a body and get it to beat. Hell we can make a dead body move around a bit. Life is in the brain not the heart the lungs, the feat, or anyother place. No brain no life.

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #154 on: March 29, 2005, 03:54:25 PM »
On a cellular level, her body knows.  It's starting to go through the process of burning whatever fat may exist.

The brain stem knows- philosphers like to think that the brain stem is more in tune with the world than our "new brain" ever will be.  We don't know what's going on in her head- all scientists can make are best guesses.  No autopsy is going to change that.

I wouldn't want to die based on a "best guess".

 
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jacy85

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #155 on: March 29, 2005, 03:57:21 PM »
You put so much stock into the "old" brain.  I find this curious, namely becuase your faith and belief in God seems important to you.  Your pondering, your beliefs, your certainty that God exists, your soul searching to find your own faith, my decision to reject my faith, this all comes form our "new" brain.

How is it that you put so much more emphasis on the biological parts, and so little emphasis on what makes us human, essentially our "new" brain?

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #156 on: March 29, 2005, 03:57:59 PM »
The count is now at 47:  A man was tasered by police for resisting arrest.  He was carrying two water bottles.  Imagine that scene for a moment.

In 2005, a man was tasered by police in an effort to bring water to a dying woman.  I disagree vehemently with his tactics but admire his dedication to an ideal.

What would happen legally if someone (her parents or a protestor) did manage to break in and wet her lips with a sponge or piece of ice?  They'd be breaking the law obviously, but can you really see someone being led away in handcuffs for moistening the lips of a dying woman?  If it were caught on camera, it would surely be one of those Elian Gonzalez moments that would galvanize the nation.

Thye should be arrested and throwen in Jail for infringing on her rights. I don't think parents should take kids to Church becasue it is bad for them, should I kidnap them. I don't think people whould eat meat, should I break into thier house and take it away. What about cigarets should I take a smoke out of someones mouth becasue I think it will kill them. These arrogent fuckers trying to force their beleifs on Terri should get lengthy prison sentances. Having beleis and convictions is one thing. Forcing them on others is arrogent, self-centered, and often illegal. Why don't they find some productive to do with their time (adopt some kids, build house, feed the hungry)  and leave the self-service publisity bull to real celebrities. 
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

We can remove a heart from a body and get it to beat. Hell we can make a dead body move around a bit. Life is in the brain not the heart the lungs, the feat, or anyother place. No brain no life.

So you believe she is dead?  Should I grind her up now for fertilizer?  Maybe you could save the family some money and cremate her right now.  She can't scream, after all.  And I'm sure the hospital would love to be informed that they have a dead body in their midst.  The CDC would probably want to investigate how it can blink its eyes.  Hell, call Fox and Mulder.
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JonR0921

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #157 on: March 29, 2005, 03:58:09 PM »
On a cellular level, her body knows.  It's starting to go through the process of burning
whatever fat may exist.

But she's completely and totally unaware of it -- unaware of anything and everything, for that matter.

giffy

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #158 on: March 29, 2005, 03:58:39 PM »

I wouldn't want to die based on a "best guess".


I, Terri, and upwards of 80% of people would not want to be kept alive in a prison of our own bodies, completly unaware of the outside world. That being said I think that whatever spirt/soul/essance that was her is long gone.

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #159 on: March 29, 2005, 04:00:19 PM »
You put so much stock into the "old" brain.  I find this curious, namely becuase your faith and belief in God seems important to you.  Your pondering, your beliefs, your certainty that God exists, your soul searching to find your own faith, my decision to reject my faith, this all comes form our "new" brain.

How is it that you put so much more emphasis on the biological parts, and so little emphasis on what makes us human, essentially our "new" brain?

You assume too much.  I think that the old brain holds many of the secrets of the universe, if only we could listen.  Buddhist monks spend years trying to isolate themselves from the world.  Animals do it without thinking.  I think the new brain, while an awesome gift, can also cause great harm.
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