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I hear America singing

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #140 on: March 29, 2005, 03:30:35 PM »
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.
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Shira

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #141 on: March 29, 2005, 03:32:26 PM »
I'm not 100% sure. Maybe, in the absence of a living will, life support would never be removed, IF the claim that the person wanted it to be was disputed. Erring on the side of life, as it were. Or hope, if "life" is questionable.

Right... but Terri's parents have already said they would ignore a living will even if it had existed. So even then it wouldn't be a matter of "erring on the side of life" -- which, btw, is a HUUUUGELY ironic phrase coming from either of the Bush brothers, seeing as how they both come from death penalty states and have surely executed men and women who have maintained their innocence to the grave.
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Xony

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #142 on: March 29, 2005, 03:35:07 PM »
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

I suppose you also think that a clump of cells in a woman's uterus is also alive. 

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #143 on: March 29, 2005, 03:37:06 PM »
while driving home i heard the following on NPR yesterday evening:

2 basic ways of getting into PVS. 1. Closed head injury, 2. temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain. PVS from a closed head injury (e.g. baseball bat to the head) is often recovered from, sometimes fully. PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is rarely ever recovered from.

Terry's PVS was caused by a temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain.

Did they mention anything about a time range after which recovery is unlikely or even impossible? If PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is "rarely" recovered from, I'm interested, relative to those cases where there was a recovery, how long afterward the recovery happened. And, how much of a "recovery" there was. I know if it was my daughter, and I knew of a case study of somebody recovering after a comparable time, it would fuel my hope.

Shira

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #144 on: March 29, 2005, 03:39:15 PM »
She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

If her heart stopped of its own accord, her parents would want her hooked up to other machines and we'd be right back at square one. They are determined to keep her body alive by any means.
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BigTex

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #145 on: March 29, 2005, 03:40:48 PM »
while driving home i heard the following on NPR yesterday evening:

2 basic ways of getting into PVS. 1. Closed head injury, 2. temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain. PVS from a closed head injury (e.g. baseball bat to the head) is often recovered from, sometimes fully. PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is rarely ever recovered from.

Terry's PVS was caused by a temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain.

Did they mention anything about a time range after which recovery is unlikely or even impossible? If PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is "rarely" recovered from, I'm interested, relative to those cases where there was a recovery, how long afterward the recovery happened. And, how much of a "recovery" there was. I know if it was my daughter, and I knew of a case study of somebody recovering after a comparable time, it would fuel my hope.


Within each category, it was stated that testing could be determinative, as appears to have been the case w/ Terry.

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #146 on: March 29, 2005, 03:41:25 PM »
while driving home i heard the following on NPR yesterday evening:

2 basic ways of getting into PVS. 1. Closed head injury, 2. temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain. PVS from a closed head injury (e.g. baseball bat to the head) is often recovered from, sometimes fully. PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is rarely ever recovered from.

Terry's PVS was caused by a temporary block of blood/oxygen to the brain.

Did they mention anything about a time range after which recovery is unlikely or even impossible? If PVS from blood/oxygen depletion is "rarely" recovered from, I'm interested, relative to those cases where there was a recovery, how long afterward the recovery happened. And, how much of a "recovery" there was. I know if it was my daughter, and I knew of a case study of somebody recovering after a comparable time, it would fuel my hope.


people who recover still have brain left.  Terri doesn't.

Xony

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #147 on: March 29, 2005, 03:43:12 PM »
If you think that a beating heart is what defines life, then what do you say about those people with no organic heart at all?

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #148 on: March 29, 2005, 03:44:05 PM »
Now the Schindler's have Jesse Jackson speaking on their behalf.  This is really getting to be ridiculous, and is certainly offensive.

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Brain-Damaged-Woman.html

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #149 on: March 29, 2005, 03:45:32 PM »
Terri's not dead, people- there's a living, breathing body in that bed.  The new brain might be inactive or liquified, but the brain stem (the old brain) is still very much alive.

She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

I think calling her "dead" is a great disgrace to life and against every biological tenet we hold true.  There's not a scientist in the world who wouldn't declare her body "alive".

I'll say it again- legally, the tube should be removed.  But don't delude yourself into thinking she died fifteen years ago.  She's starving to death right now.

I suppose you also think that a clump of cells in a woman's uterus is also alive. 

And you propose that biologically they are not?
She's not dead until her heart stops on its own accord.

If her heart stopped of its own accord, her parents would want her hooked up to other machines and we'd be right back at square one. They are determined to keep her body alive by any means.

I don't have a problem with pulling the plug on respirators- if there's no chance, let me go.  But starving her is inhumane.  Someone mentioned earlier that she can't ingest food on her own.  Where does this slippery slope end?  What if it goes from not being able to swallow to not being able to physically place the food in your mouth?  Is feeding a parapalegic considered "life support"?  You are basically ensuring their survival.  Likewise, a baby can't eat unless you help it.  Could mothers cut off "life support" and let their babies die?  I'm sure there are some lawyers that would argue the point.  If grandma breaks her hip and can't reach the top shelf for food, do we slowly let her die?

Terri's body wants fuel.  Right now, every cell in her body is screaming to survive, since it's the utmost instinct we have.  I consider withholding something somebody needs to live to be murder.

Pulling out the feeding tube is equivalent in my book to sucking all the oxygen out of the room.  Her stomach works, it just needs the raw material.
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