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I hear America singing

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #60 on: March 22, 2005, 11:18:06 AM »
From MSNBC:

In many right-to-die cases, the patient is on life-support systems, so all that needs to be done to allow them to die is to remove these medical obstacles to death.  However, in this case Terri Schiavo is not on any life support systems. In this case, in order to live she only requires hydration and nutrition; and it is a big stretch for many people to label food and water extraordinary means. It is one thing to let a person die in peace who is already dying. It is one thing to remove an obstacle to death. It is quite another to cause death. When you add in her parents' willingness to assume the financial and emotional burden of her care, the insistence of her husband that he be given the right to starve his wife to death just seems insanely ghoulish to many people who are otherwise in favor of a person's right to die. Death, they argue—and I agree—is not always an insult or a betrayal. Death can be a natural and welcome release from pain and suffering.  We now face the frightening possibility of modern medicine, motivated more by a defensive fear of lawsuits than the Hippocratic oath of “first do no harm,” stopping us from crossing over when it is our time. But this obviously is not Terri Schiavo's time.  She is alive, innocent and mute.  She is not at death's door.  All this sound and fury is about cruelly bringing the door to her.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259993/site/newsweek/

giffy

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #61 on: March 22, 2005, 11:26:14 AM »
Hey, giffy, when you get a chance would you read my blog entry entitled "All the World's a Stage"?  When I read the passage that inspired it, I though of you.

According to Peck, you're a strong stage III, which means you're more spiritually advanced that most Christians sitting in the pew.  I'm interested in hearing what you think about this theory, if only because I'd like to hear someone's thoughts on the matter who isn't a Christian. 

And based on your response to the turtle shell thread, I take it that most of the Christians you encounter are srong stage Twos, which makes people like me nauseous.  They think that salvation is dependent on works and try to preach all the time.

To be honest, if I had to live amongst stage two Christians, I would probably be tempted to reject my faith.  Their brand of religion is institutional, not internal.  I can't stand it.

From MSNBC:

In many right-to-die cases, the patient is on life-support systems, so all that needs to be done to allow them to die is to remove these medical obstacles to death.  However, in this case Terri Schiavo is not on any life support systems. In this case, in order to live she only requires hydration and nutrition; and it is a big stretch for many people to label food and water extraordinary means. It is one thing to let a person die in peace who is already dying. It is one thing to remove an obstacle to death. It is quite another to cause death. When you add in her parents' willingness to assume the financial and emotional burden of her care, the insistence of her husband that he be given the right to starve his wife to death just seems insanely ghoulish to many people who are otherwise in favor of a person's right to die. Death, they argue—and I agree—is not always an insult or a betrayal. Death can be a natural and welcome release from pain and suffering.  We now face the frightening possibility of modern medicine, motivated more by a defensive fear of lawsuits than the Hippocratic oath of “first do no harm,” stopping us from crossing over when it is our time. But this obviously is not Terri Schiavo's time.  She is alive, innocent and mute.  She is not at death's door.  All this sound and fury is about cruelly bringing the door to her.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7259993/site/newsweek/

Well msot Americas arn't troubled by it.




jacy85

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #62 on: March 22, 2005, 11:27:11 AM »
That's all fine and good.

It not as simple as that makes it seem though.

Is she alive?  Her heart beats.  She blinks.  She can make random noises with her mouth.

But she is unaware of everything.  She doesn't make simplisitic noises to show emotion.  She has no more emotion.  She can't decide what to have to eat for breakfast.  She can't even chew and swallow food.

I think providing food and water through a tube insterted via surgery into her stomach as life support.  It's not as though she's in a coma, completely in tact, waiting to wake up.  She has no brain fuction that allows her to be a human being.

So it's really not as simple as you make it sound in the above passage (didn't read the link yet, so I don't know if you quoted or what)

And her husband's not trying to murder her either, like you make it sound.  If he just wanted her to die, and that was his sole intention no matter what Terri herself believed, then it's obvious to me that the courts would not allow that.  It's been shown again and again that the prevailing evidence supports the fact that Terri would have have wanted to be kept alive by tubes and such.  Which is why the courts allowed the life support measure to be removed.

jacy85

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #63 on: March 22, 2005, 11:27:53 AM »
Can you post a link or somethign to where you found that giffy?  It's too small for me to read.

I hear America singing

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2005, 11:30:55 AM »
This is Foxnews, so caveat emptor- that said, either this Iyer woman is lying or she's not as bad as we think.

Carla Sauer Iyer (search), a registered nurse who provided care to Terri Schiavo from 1995 to 1996 at a convalescence home in Largo, Fla., told FOX News in an interview Tuesday that her patient would interact with staff, was alert and aware and could talk.

"Her cognitive abilities including laughing, talking, letting you know she was in pain," Iyer told FOX News, adding that Terri Schiavo could say words like "mommy," "help me," "hi" and "pain."

She also said Schiavo had accurate reflexes on demand. Nurses also were able, at times, to feed Terri thickened liquids such as pudding and Jello with a baby bottle.

Iyer also claims that one time when she put a washcloth in Terri's hand to test her reflexes, Michael Schiavo would get upset and say, "that's therapy — take that washcloth out."

"I think a gag order has been put on all positive things that Terri has done," claimed Iyer.

Iyer said she was coming forward "to let the truth be known, to let the people know. I was one of the few people who was able to see Terri. She was able to talk, communicate with staff ... I want the public to know the truth."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,151140,00.html

giffy

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #65 on: March 22, 2005, 11:35:03 AM »
Can you post a link or somethign to where you found that giffy?  It's too small for me to read.

Here ya go
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/03/details-of-cnns-poll-on-schiavogate.html

I hear America singing

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #66 on: March 22, 2005, 11:36:00 AM »
from CNN:

Asked if he would feel bad if his wife died and medical experts later figured out a way for her to have had a better life, he said that was a medical impossibility.

"Let's be realistic, Larry. You can't regrow a brain," he said.

Meanwhile, outside the hospice, Terri's brother thanked supporters on his family's behalf and said they remain optimistic the feeding tube will be reinserted.

At the same time, he said it is disturbing to visit his sister without the feeding tube.

"She's still alert, but we're going on four days now, and we're slowly watching my sister being starved to death," Bobby Schindler said.

"It's a surreal situation when you walk in there, and you realize you're watching a loved one slowly being starved to death and dehydrated to death. It's hard to describe."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/03/22/schiavo/index.html

I hear America singing

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #67 on: March 22, 2005, 11:37:41 AM »
Can you post a link or somethign to where you found that giffy?  It's too small for me to read.

Here ya go
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/03/details-of-cnns-poll-on-schiavogate.html

giffy- I can't visit free pages because I'm at work, but please tell me you're not trying to use online polls to prove what the majority of Americans believe.  I don't pose FoxNews polls, or the recent MSNBC poll that shows 82% of the country believes Jesus rose from the dead.

giffy

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #68 on: March 22, 2005, 11:43:23 AM »
Can you post a link or somethign to where you found that giffy?  It's too small for me to read.

Here ya go
http://americablog.blogspot.com/2005/03/details-of-cnns-poll-on-schiavogate.html

giffy- I can't visit free pages because I'm at work, but please tell me you're not trying to use online polls to prove what the majority of Americans believe.  I don't pose FoxNews polls, or the recent MSNBC poll that shows 82% of the country believes Jesus rose from the dead.

Polls are pretty accurate. I would beleive that 82% of Americans beleive in the reserection of Christ. Polls arn't 100% but are generally pretty good. As long as they are methodolgically sound that is. ABC also did a poll that showed similar findings to the CNN one. 

Shira

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Re: Terry Schiavo
« Reply #69 on: March 22, 2005, 12:30:07 PM »
from CNN:

Asked if he would feel bad if his wife died and medical experts later figured out a way for her to have had a better life, he said that was a medical impossibility.

"Let's be realistic, Larry. You can't regrow a brain," he said.

Is that supposed to like, show his insensitivity or something?

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/03/20/Tampabay/Schiavo___Come_down__.shtml

The man's wife died 14 years ago. I'd be worried if he HADN'T moved on by now. His wife is being kept alive as a zombie; why should he divorce her and let these people get away with abusing her body like this? She's not *there* and he is staying by her and making sure her wishes are carried out.