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Author Topic: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it  (Read 21370 times)

angmill08

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #70 on: April 04, 2005, 05:25:34 PM »
My point is that poverty strikes hard across all races resulting in similar problems.  This is why I doubt that racism is a large part of the problem.

But Dano, poverty does not strike equally hard across all races. As others have noted, there are more whites living in poverty than blacks. But the percentage of poor blacks out of the total black population is substaintially higher than the percentage of poor whites out of the total white population. The same is true for Hispanics and Native Americans. The rate of poverty among different races is not constant. Do you understand what I mean?

Poverty and race are linked. Any effort to increase access to educational and economic opportunity should consider poverty and race, how they are linked, and situations where they are not (the concentration of white poverty in Appalachia comes to mind.)

Clearly, this connection is a topic which interests me. I am glad to continue this discussion with anyone who is also interested, despite the Oracle's opposition. :)
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Applied: UT Austin (ED), Univ. of Houston, George Washington U & American U.
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_BP_

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #71 on: April 04, 2005, 08:22:21 PM »
Angmill...it's not the topic of race relations that throws me off, but the never-ending drivel driven discussion on A.A.

m-d-c , I think every one has the ability to look at the topic of race objectively, regardless of skin color.  Examining a topic objectively and speaking with authority are two completely different things.  It comes down to this: don't try to convince me that my shoes are comfortable if you haven't walked a day in them!  That's my beef.
orright I'm done. 
Peace.
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Dano

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #72 on: April 04, 2005, 11:59:11 PM »
But Dano, poverty does not strike equally hard across all races. As others have noted, there are more whites living in poverty than blacks. But the percentage of poor blacks out of the total black population is substaintially higher than the percentage of poor whites out of the total white population. The same is true for Hispanics and Native Americans. The rate of poverty among different races is not constant. Do you understand what I mean?

Poverty and race are linked. Any effort to increase access to educational and economic opportunity should consider poverty and race, how they are linked, and situations where they are not (the concentration of white poverty in Appalachia comes to mind.)

Clearly, this connection is a topic which interests me. I am glad to continue this discussion with anyone who is also interested, despite the Oracle's opposition. :)

Of course poverty strikes equally amongst all races, all races suffer if they don't have enough to eat.  All races suffer if they cannot locate decent, safe housing.  Why is it that Asians have poverty rates (11.8 percent) much lower than blacks (24.4 percent) and hispanics (22.5 percent) according to the 2003 Census data?  Haven't Asians been victims of racism as well?  It seems there is more than racism involved here.  The poverty figures for Hispanics and Blacks are possibly slanted due to new poor immigrants from Haiti, Mexico, and other countries.  There are fewer poor white immigrants entering the country.  Furthermore, recent census data suggests that black poverty rates are stabilizing while white poverty rates have increased.  This is not necessarily a great thing, but at least it demonstrates that the trends of poverty are impacting both groups.

In response to the so called Oracle ... how does one become an Oracle with such a restrictive mentality?

_BP_

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #73 on: April 05, 2005, 12:46:22 AM »
But Dano, poverty does not strike equally hard across all races. As others have noted, there are more whites living in poverty than blacks. But the percentage of poor blacks out of the total black population is substaintially higher than the percentage of poor whites out of the total white population. The same is true for Hispanics and Native Americans. The rate of poverty among different races is not constant. Do you understand what I mean?

Poverty and race are linked. Any effort to increase access to educational and economic opportunity should consider poverty and race, how they are linked, and situations where they are not (the concentration of white poverty in Appalachia comes to mind.)

Clearly, this connection is a topic which interests me. I am glad to continue this discussion with anyone who is also interested, despite the Oracle's opposition. :)

Of course poverty strikes equally amongst all races, all races suffer if they don't have enough to eat.  All races suffer if they cannot locate decent, safe housing.  Why is it that Asians have poverty rates (11.8 percent) much lower than blacks (24.4 percent) and hispanics (22.5 percent) according to the 2003 Census data?  Haven't Asians been victims of racism as well?  It seems there is more than racism involved here.  The poverty figures for Hispanics and Blacks are possibly slanted due to new poor immigrants from Haiti, Mexico, and other countries.  There are fewer poor white immigrants entering the country.  Furthermore, recent census data suggests that black poverty rates are stabilizing while white poverty rates have increased.  This is not necessarily a great thing, but at least it demonstrates that the trends of poverty are impacting both groups.

In response to the so called Oracle ... how does one become an Oracle with such a restrictive mentality?

Restrictive to what? Your "it seems to me" analysis, combined with statistics that reach no real conclusion?  It's interesting that that was your response to me, while ignoring the meat of what I had to say....
oh well.
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Dano

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #74 on: April 05, 2005, 01:57:23 AM »
Restrictive to what? Your "it seems to me" analysis, combined with statistics that reach no real conclusion?  It's interesting that that was your response to me, while ignoring the meat of what I had to say....
oh well.

There was no "meat" to what you had to say.  It was essentially a short, childish rant blabbing about how you are the only one with the right to a perspective on this issue followed by a silly declaration against all people that post to this thread.

hilljack

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #75 on: April 05, 2005, 02:29:00 AM »
Restrictive to what? Your "it seems to me" analysis, combined with statistics that reach no real conclusion?  It's interesting that that was your response to me, while ignoring the meat of what I had to say....
oh well.

There was no "meat" to what you had to say.  It was essentially a short, childish rant blabbing about how you are the only one with the right to a perspective on this issue followed by a silly declaration against all people that post to this thread.

Sometimes outmatched individuals will resort to back and forth palavering.  Dano, this does not refer to you, but to the person who has no legitimate response to what you say.

_BP_

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #76 on: April 05, 2005, 02:31:01 AM »
Restrictive to what? Your "it seems to me" analysis, combined with statistics that reach no real conclusion?  It's interesting that that was your response to me, while ignoring the meat of what I had to say....
oh well.

There was no "meat" to what you had to say.  It was essentially a short, childish rant blabbing about how you are the only one with the right to a perspective on this issue followed by a silly declaration against all people that post to this thread.

You are a joke. I give up.
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hilljack

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #77 on: April 05, 2005, 02:45:42 AM »
Restrictive to what? Your "it seems to me" analysis, combined with statistics that reach no real conclusion?  It's interesting that that was your response to me, while ignoring the meat of what I had to say....
oh well.

There was no "meat" to what you had to say.  It was essentially a short, childish rant blabbing about how you are the only one with the right to a perspective on this issue followed by a silly declaration against all people that post to this thread.

You are a joke. I give up.

This is a typical response of a person who is unwilling to accept equality of process.

angmill08

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Re: Affirmative Action is for...
« Reply #78 on: April 05, 2005, 05:55:03 PM »
Why is it that Asians have poverty rates (11.8 percent) much lower than blacks (24.4 percent) and hispanics (22.5 percent) according to the 2003 Census data?  Haven't Asians been victims of racism as well? 

Now this, to me, is an interesting question, because it gets to the connection between race & poverty and the divergences between the two. My first response to your question, Dano, would be that residential segregation for blacks has been more extreme and more complete than for any other ethnic group in the history of the US. Given that where you live will determine what school you attend and what political representation you have, and that these two issues have ripple effects on many other aspects of your life, the effect of residential segregation is big. I didn't come up with this idea myself -- I highly recommend a book called "American Apartied" which covers this topic in depth and presents a lot of data on it. The book puts forth a compelling argument that economic and education opportunites for African Americans have been restricted to an extent that those for other ethnic groups have not. Reading it really gave me a new perspective on this issue.

As for the Oracle's comments and the responses... it seems to me that the meat of the Oracle's post was frustration with whites who feel they can authoritatively claim that "the playing field is level" or otherwise discount the effects of racism on others, when they themselves have no experience with it. (And by "it" I mean racism in the racism = prejudice + oppression way.) During some of the discussions on this board, when (white) people ask for "proof" that racism still exists, I sometimes wonder why they can't just take black people's word for it. Or take that word, in conjunction with the legions of sociological studies, in addition to the scholarly analysis of  the effects of historical racism.
164/3.46 Undergrad GPA, graduated college in 1996.
Applied: UT Austin (ED), Univ. of Houston, George Washington U & American U.
Accepted: Univ. of Houston, GW, American
Attending: GW, Fall 2006

idontknow

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Re: Affirmative Action is for people not smart enough to get in without it
« Reply #79 on: April 05, 2005, 10:21:18 PM »
people, I'm not bashing AA just for the sake of bashing AA.  What I am saying is that it is a non-effective way to achieve whatever equality it tried to achieve.  It aint working, so it's time to think of something else.  It is insulting, I would imagine, to a minority person to be told that they can enter a job/school/whatever only bcs they are a minority..but had they been white, they'd be not good enough.  It's racist against the  majority too.  I had to give up my spot in an elite high school bcs I am white - but some other person who performed worse than me and had a bit more melanin in their skin got in.   It isn't my fault that some person's parents had to work 3 jobs to make ends meet...why should my future suffer bcs of it?  It's the gov't fault...for having horrible welfare laws, pathetic minimum wages, taxing the poor and giving bill gates a tax break!  basicly, it's all the republican's fault  :)

Reducing a person's race/ethnicity to melanin levels is utterly ridiculous.